Morocco Constitution Referendum: The Debate
- M. CHTAINI
- 06/26/11
I will vote "Yes" for the amended constitution and Mr. Taibi will either vote "No" or abstain from voting. While Mr. Taibi has given his reasons as to why he may either vote "No" or abstain, Here are giving my reasons for voting "yes".
|
Before King Mohammed VI concluded his historic speech announcing the greatly anticipated new constitution that he alleged would make Morocco into a viable democracy, thousands of jubilant Moroccans flooded the streets of Casablanca and Rabat waving flags, enskying pictures of the king, and voicing their unconditional approval of the new document. Some argue that it accords unique rights and freedoms to individuals, it confers on Moroccans all the rights contained in international agreements the government has signed, it limits the King’s political nomination prerogatives since the president of the government will be appointed from the party leading the election and therefore chosen by the people, it grants the appointed president executive political authority. These are great concessions Moroccan fought hard for, but such arguments make the ignis matuus even more persuasive. |
Taibi ‘s Statement Says:
1. Before King Mohammed VI concluded his historic speech announcing the greatly anticipated new constitution that he alleged would make Morocco into a viable democracy, thousands of jubilant Moroccans flooded the streets of Casablanca and Rabat waving flags, enskying pictures of the king, and voicing their unconditional approval of the new document. Some argue that it accords unique rights and freedoms to individuals, it confers on Moroccans all the rights contained in international agreements the government has signed, it limits the King’s political nomination prerogatives since the president of the government will be appointed from the party leading the election and therefore chosen by the people, it grants the appointed president executive political authority. These are great concessions Moroccan fought hard for, but such arguments make the ignis matuus even more persuasive.
Chtaini’s Response:
It is a matter of interpretation and perceptions. Any constitution and its articles are subject to interpretation. You read the constitution twice and you interpret it differently than the way the people who went out in the street and chanted, danced and waved the Moroccan flags and carrying the King pictures interpret it. Sarcastically or not, you even stated what it means to them. You admitted that they were voicing their unconditional approval to the new document. You mentioned that some argue that it accords unique rights and freedoms to individuals, it confers on Moroccans all the rights contained in international agreements the government has signed, it limits the King’s political nomination prerogatives since the president of the government will be appointed from the party leading the election and therefore chosen by the people, it grants the appointed president executive political authority. You conclude that these are great concessions Moroccan fought hard for. But as to your interpretation of all of what these people believe the articles of the constitution mean to them and will do for them you are not convince that The amended constitution means what it means to them and will do what they believe it will do for them. Based on your perception, the amended constitution is far from what they perceive it to mean and do. According to you, the Moroccans who have this well stated above interpretation of the amended constitution are being fooled by their King and that all their expectations are a mirage. My response to that is that you are wrong. Do you believe that the King is in this to play games on his supporters and that all of what he is doing is make belief exercises? I am not naïve and I beg to disagree. If anyone wants to see that these interpretations and implementation of the constitution become a reality more than any Moroccans, it is the King himself. I tend to believe that he will face up to the challenge and deliver what he promises in this amended constitution that is why I am voting “Yes”. If you don’t think that he will, you can always vote ‘No”. Time will tell. You must keep in mind that democratic constitutions are dynamic not static and the Moroccan people know what is good for them.
Taibi’s Statement
2: I read the new constitution twice. I can not wrap my mind around the fact that for a country that has thirty four political parties, such a document, meant as a judicial backbone, was finalized in a mere three months without as much as a contentious political peep. One needs not be a legal scholar to perceive amidst the legalese formulas that the document hardly strives to warrant power-sharing. At its core, the new constitution is an infinitely ductile tool of monarchic powers. It allows for, in fact encourages, royal overreach on political, security, economic, social, and religious affairs. It provides the king with the constitutional authority to override the executive political decisions of the president of the government. It allows him, if he so chooses, to act contrary to the advisory of the constitutional counsels. Its articles, specifically article III dealing with the monarchy, contains fundamental divides Morocco’s legislature, if for a nanosecond it stopped lavishing deference on the king, would find impossible to bridge were it to adhere to a democratic template. The judicial processes it outlines are flimsy at best and will not sustain the rule of law. Above the people’s voice, that of the King remains authoritative. The leash is not being broken; it is just being reeled out.
Chtaini Response
The amended constitution is itself a democratic template that can be subject to further amendments. Where would the elected legislators elected by the people take it is up to them. All this verbiage and parable you are indulging in to complicate an uncomplicated situation summarized will say as you say that the King cannot again be trusted not to use his assumed powers that the amended constitution clearly grants him. As you said if the King chooses he can use them. The magic word here is “Chooses”. I am of the opinion that he will choose not to act in contradiction of the interest of his people. This is why his interpretation of the constitution and theirs are in sync and this why I am voting “Yes” and so is the overwhelming majority of the Moroccan people registered to vote. A week from today the referendum will be voted “yes”. It took 55 years since independence to enter the realm of democracy. This amended constitution is the best that could happen to the Kingdom of Morocco in the arena of politics today. Thirty three political parties confirm that this plurality is the expression of 33 different interest groups participating in the Moroccan political system to maximize their respective interest either as an individual party or as a coalition of parties. In reality these parties are going to fall in the ranks and align themselves with those of with the same ideology and political programs as theirs. We will end up with one coalition to govern and one to oppose. It you analyze the two party system in the USA. Each party represents a coalition of so many different political thinking from the extreme left to the extreme right. As to the time it took to amend the constitution. I do not see why there is a need for more time because the amendments of the constitution are very clear. Either you support them or you don’t. Once the new constitution is voted in and the mechanisms of implementation of its articles are established, the legislative branch can at the demand of the electorate and their different lobbies propose if necessary to amend the constitution. The executive branch may also propose new amendments to be voted on by the legislative branch or in referendum by the people. This is just the beginning on the path of democracy. Accomplishing all these democratic objectives in 12 years since King Mohammed VI came to power is a record breaking achievement in the annals of the history of the constitutional world. I could not agree more with what if? But you are taking it to the extreme. Give this amended constitution a chance. You will see between the will of the Moroccan people and their King things will work out.
Taibi’s Statement:
This one I have divided in 3A and 3B
3A: To understand the complexity of the King’s power, one should consider how Morocco’s layman defines it. “The King is everything,” he would say. Indeed, he is the deus ex machina whose powers by far exceed that of all political parties and civil institutions combined. He is above the constitution and has no obligation to the law or the people. People’s vote is inconsequential.
Chtaini’s Response:
I am puzzled by this type of logic that you are attempting to explain. So what if Morocco’s layman believes as you have him saying “the King is everything”. What is wrong with that? The Japanese people believe that their Emperor is the Son of the Sun. But he is still human. You are putting words in the layman’s mouth when you state that “Indeed, he (King) is the deus ex machina whose powers by far exceed that of all political parties and civil institutions combined. He is above the constitution and has no obligation to the law or the people. People’s vote is inconsequential”. This baffles my mind because even if the King as you say is all that to his people, then he will respond to this elevation that his people grant him and bestow upon him to never disappoint them in using these powers against them no matter what the circumstances. The King’s pact with his people is sacred. The King will never create a situation where he needs to use these powers nor would the Moroccan people push him to that extreme where he needs to use them. This situation will never happen. Furthermore; the Moroccan people and their King know the importance of what they have achieved. They and their King are not going to try to throw it under the bus as you would have wanted them to do by what you are expressing in this blog.
Taibi’s Statement
3B: Morocco’s older generation, the one that survived French colonization and saw the face of Mohammed V, the current king’s grandfather, on a full moon, believes Mohammed VI to have “baraka,” divine blessing, and to govern by an edict from Allah. Such Moroccans and younger ones who were inculcated with such ludicrous beliefs will vote in favor of the new constitution simply because the King tasked them to do so. Such power is unfathomable to Western minds that hold the sanctity of the law above that of mere mortals.
Chtaini’s response:
First of all Moroccan believe that everyone of us has his or her own “Baraka Men Aannd sidi Rabbi”, just as the Jews believe that they are the “chosen people”. We can discuss the “Baraka” some other time. How can you fall for the King’s grandfather Mohammed V face on the moon? As someone who lived that experience, I can assure you that we looked at the moon and we saw no face on it. But when the French colons’ forces’ helicopters were flying over our head when we were on our roofs in the medina, we all pointed with our hand to the moon in affirmative manner and in unison as loud as we can we said that “there, there, you see Moulay Mohammed’s face” and the women launch their barrage of “Zgharit”. You are smarter than that, my generation was not dumb. We fought the enemy in the street and in space. We were using psychological warfare against the French colons who were oppressing us and torturing our people in their torture camps. We wanted them to get out of morocco. We made it even worse for the French colon forces when we said that the only way to be able to see the King’s face on the moon is to be a Moslem. I do not know where you got your interpretation from. You could have asked me and I would have given you the right information on this issue. The same way you claim to try to show how intelligent you are in comparison to us, kindly do not belittle our intelligence by saying that “Such Moroccans and younger ones who were inculcated with such ludicrous beliefs will vote in favor of the new constitution simply because the King tasked them to do so. Such power is unfathomable to Western minds that hold the sanctity of the law above that of mere mortals.” Let me get you straight little bid. Did it ever occur to you, that we do not give a dam about what is unfathomable to Western minds and what they hold as a sanctity because when they decided to start shooting at us when we were on our roof and killing us, where was your law and theirs which you consider “above that of mere mortals.” We were mortals, yes indeed, and we died. Do you really believe deep in you brains, mind, heart and soul including your spirit that carrying a psychological warfare against the enemy during our “valiant revolution of the King and the People” as it was known for independence against the enemy as such makes our “beliefs ludicrous”? Do you believe that because we are voting Yes that the King tasked to do so? Let me stay civil! What is facetious and beyond belief is when you bring in divinity in your presentation on your blog. All I am going to say is that you will use anything to try to prove a point using not only misinformation but also blasphemy. You know that we Moslem and I hope you are still one of us believe in “Laa Illaha Ilaa Allah wa Mohammdan Rassoul Allah”. Say “Staghfour Allah Al AAdheem” and cut this nonsense. This type of propaganda is very contagious. You have already made “mbt” state in his comment on your blog in public that the Moroccans believe that “the King is God”. How absurd can one be? You both must be hallucinating. The King is a human being like you, mbt and I. Enough of this type of stupidity. Your western friends are going to think that you crossed the line and you and mbt must get some rest to regain control of you mental capacities. BY the way mbt said in his comment that he is going to start doing that by organizing mint tea mixing and tastings, maybe you could join him. Taste the tea but no joints.
Taibi’s Statement
4: The government already conveyed its confidence, the new constitution will be voted into law in the nationwide referendum scheduled for the 1st of July. I suspect it will overwhelmingly pass muster, not so much because its proponents have determined, after close scrutiny, it enshrines the principles of democracy and the fundamentals of equality of all Moroccans before the law, but because the king sanctioned it and urged the political parties to mobilize the population to vote favorably. In so doing, Mohammed VI transgressed article III, section 42 of the new constitution describing him as a “supreme arbiter that transcends political partisanship, upholds the nation’s democratic choices, and guarantees the adequacy of constitutional institutions.” He, of course, cannot be probed for such unethical action; section 46 of the constitution protects him from accountability. This is an instance among many that illustrates how the new constitution is inconsistent with real democracy – no one is above the law, not even a king.
Chtaini’s Response:
I was going to deal with this fourth statement, but the way you presented my generation and your blasphemy made me lose my desire to continue this debate. “La Illah ila Allah wa La Charika Lah”. I am not a devout Moslem nor am I an Islamist. This last paragraph of your blog presentation comes from so low. It is the same redundancy and repetitious indoctrination you are propagating against the King, the Moroccan people, the amended constitution and now my generation. I shall not pay it any mind, but I will ask this. What‘s with the Latin, have you been raised by Catholic priests? In spite of it all, please do not abstain; do vote even if you vote “No”. I am going to drive all the way from San Francisco to Los Angeles to vote “Yes” because I sincerely believe it is the right thing to do. We finally are embarking on the vessel of democracy and we must all participate in spite of our differences and be patient while holding the course.
Add comment
Comments (7)
but It's not quite a democratic constitution because it keeps a lot of executive powers in the hands of the king who is not subject to accountability.
In the balance of things and taking into consideration the unhealthy political climate in morocco, I will vote yes but will keep pushing for democratic amendments.
It is clear that in his long-winded pseudo analysis, Mr. Chtaini failed to grasp on of the key points of my article. The new constitution contains fundamental inconsistencies and contradictions. While it proposes freedom of speech, it bars Moroccans from criticizing the one person who has the final say on issues affecting them directly; While it proclaims no one is above accountability, it describes the king beyond reproach; while it confers executive powers on the president of the government, it depicts the king as supreme executor. Such deficiencies cannot be mitigated by the Moroccan judicial. Any legal expert will tell you that such a document cannot be executable. This is not an interpretation; it's a fact.
The second point I made in my article is that when the king announced that he will vote "yes" to the new constitution and tasked his subjects to follow suit, he, by virtue of his position, undermined the fairness of the vote. Such unethical action is unbecoming of the highest-ranking official who claims to value the voice of Moroccans.
As to my reference to Mohammed V’s face on the moon; of course you are right. It was a psyop. In military doctrine, psyops are primarily offensive operations directed against the enemy to influence its opinion and erode its support. A key component of psyop planning is target profile. The French military, more rational and pragmatic, was not likely to believe that the face of Mohammed V appeared on the moon and therefore were not the intended target of such a psyop. The Moroccan population, on the other hand, less educated, highly spiritual and prone to magical thinking, was the intended target. The majority of Moroccans believed the ashen face of Mohammed V appeared on the moon. People swore they saw it from the roofs of their homes. The nationalists who instigated the Mohammed V psyop – which was nothing more than a rumor - were closer to the palace and intended for the operation to consolidate the legitimacy of the exiled sultan and brand him as a mystical figure in order to garner popular support prior to his return in November of 1955.
That wasn’t the last time the Moroccan people were targets of a psyop; there is a large scope psyop going on right now to get people to vote “yes” to the new constitution. You, Mr. Chtaini, happen to be a player in it, albeit a poorly effective one.
@Robert
I beg to disagree with you. A "yes" vote will enhance the Monarchy's ability to continue on the track it has embarked upon since 1999 when King Mohammed VI came into power. So far he is managing the state of affairs in a very successful manner. The overwhelming majority of the Moroccan people are going to vote "Yes". This is a sign of the political maturity of the Moroccan people and interpret this constitution to provide accountability of the Moroccan political system as a whole. So instead of being pessimistic about Morocco be optimistic. If Robert is an assumed name and you are a Moroccan who can vote. Vote "Yes" for a better Morocco. If you are not let me say this "Your pessimism will not discourage those of us who will vote "Yes" and who have faith in the future of Morocco under the leadership of King Mohammed VI..
@ Si Ahmed Taibi
Firs of all you and I are both detractors and we are both fairly certain that the readers see through what we both say. You call what I say propaganda, I say what you say is also propaganda. When you vilify and insult me and my generation why does no that reflect more on your character than mine.
Get down from your Gotham tower Bat Man. If your analysis is based on your interpretations why is it that when I give an opposite interpretation to yours, Maroquone comes to the rescue as Robin would. I am not the Joker. You got it all wrong. I am debating your interpretation of the amended constitution.
“The new constitution contains fundamental inconsistencies and contradictions. While it proposes freedom of speech, it bars Moroccans from criticizing the one person who has the final say on issues affecting them directly; While it proclaims no one is above accountability, it describes the king beyond reproach; while it confers executive powers on the president of the government, it depicts the king as supreme executor. Such deficiencies cannot be mitigated by the Moroccan judicial. Any legal expert will tell you that such a document cannot be executable”.
You repeat yourself and I believe that we have debated this part and I accepted your interpretation and I stated mine. I will vote “Yes” and I still do not know what you are going to do. What bothers me and I am sure will bother the readers as well is that you argue in the absolute calling on ‘Fantomas” legal expert to make your interpretation a fact. Where is humility, or don’t you know what that means. In a debate you are not allowed to stack the deck.
“The second point I made in my article is that when the king announced that he will vote "yes" to the new constitution and tasked his subjects to follow suit, he, by virtue of his position, undermined the fairness of the vote. Such unethical action is unbecoming of the highest-ranking official who claims to value the voice of Moroccans”.
If the King announces that he will vote “Yes”. How did that affect your vote or that of the people who are going to vote like you? Why is that undermining the fairness of the vote or is this an unethical action unbecoming? You want to apply your own rules of how the King should communicate with the Moroccan people. If he does not, then everything is call to question. I disagree with this attitude.
“As to my reference to Mohammed V’s face on the moon; of course you are right. It was a psyop.”
Why not stop here and let this issue go. No you are not the type to let it go. You gave mis-information and you are too proud and in love with you ego to let it go. While you are trying to justify your pride, you blew it again. If the French colon forces were more rational and pragmatic that we “Rag heads”, they should have predicted that they were going to be kicked out of North Africa because no matter how rational or pragmatic they were, they lost. What make you so suddenly an expert on military psychological warfare? Why you did not bring all this expertise when you bashed my generation in your blog. Because you give the impression of knowing everything, I refuse to accept your “in retrospect.” This is war, no prisoners. I lived the whole experience and we knew it was a rumor. We do not need you to tell us that.
“The nationalists who instigated the Mohammed V psyop – which was nothing more than a rumor - were closer to the palace and intended for the operation to consolidate the legitimacy of the exiled sultan and brand him as a mystical figure in order to garner popular support prior to his return in November of 1955.”
If I take this type of argumentation to its finality, you would then say that the whole thing is a set up. The French colons exiled Sultan Ben Youssef so that when he returns he will become King Mohammed V. This “Hog Wash”. The Moroccan loved King Mohammed V then just like they love King Mohammed VI now. No brag, just facts.
“That wasn’t the last time the Moroccan people were targets of a psyop; there is a large scope psyop going on right now to get people to vote “yes” to the new constitution. You, Mr. Chtaini, happen to be a player in it, albeit a poorly effective one.”
This does it! Did it ever occur to you that the same way you think for yourself I think for myself so does the overwhelming majority of the Moroccan people who are going to vote “Yes”? To you we must have been attacked by the “Empire’s” large scope psyop and this is why we are going to vote the way we do “Yes”. Stop playing R2D2. Did it ever occur to you that I am voting my conscience? You probably do not understand what that means.
I say vote Yes to get going given the level of instability in the region and so that folks back home can have more stable daily lives with the understanding that it is a gift the people is extending to the king and the agreement that more modifications will be coming soon. Greema seekers are a true catastrophe.
 |
|||||
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
Upcoming Events
| Sun May 19 @17:00 - Nass El Ghiwane Film: "Trances" |
- MoroccoTravel.co.uk Domain for sale
- Jobs In Seattle
- LEXUS LX 750 2011
- Meds 4 sale
- land 4 sale Tangier
- Arabic Interpreter
- Appt 4 sale Cabo Negro
- Add Properties 4 free
- Apple Iphone 5
- Med Marijuana 4 sale
- Morocco Guide Wanted
- fundraising 4 trip !
- Carpentry services
- 3% interest Loan
- TIME SHARE - Orlando
- Au Pair Wanted
- Tours to Morocco
- pro Martial Arts & Jujitsu
- Info on medical program
- Apt 4 Sale- KENITRA
- luxury appartement
- video editor/studio intern
- parrots, birds and eggs
- Drivers
- Vintage Rug
- Bouznika Bay
- worker
- AU PAIR
- aupair
- Bride
- Riads in Marrakech
- Morocco: Biz 4 Sale
- Lux Apt in Marrakech
- Muslim Matrimonials
- Married Couple
- AU PAIR
- Nanny needed
- actress
- Beach Villa For sale
- Burger King
- appt 4 SALE - RABAT
- appt swap: Berlin Morocco
- Nanny/Driver/Chef
- Al Hammam !
- Summer is Here
- my bride!
- GIRL TO MARRY
- forestland for sale
- NYC housekeeper P/T
- Organic Argan Oil
- APPT casablanca
- car rental Agcy sale
- Promotion Agent Wanted
- Stock market
- wife
- House Swap
- Educational materials
- Swap House
- Moroccan Cookies
- Looking 4 Muslima
- Parrot Birds Parrot Eggs
- EDUCATION
- Moroccan jazz
- Customer Service Rep
- Appt 4 sale Temara
Contributors
To post Video, images and links please use appropriate button