Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict
- M. CHTAINI
- 03/12/13
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Open Letter To Morocco UN Rep Mr. Loulichki |
San Francisco / Morocco News Board -- in our life were we told that we should have known better than say, act and behave one way or another after we said, acted or behaved in certain way?
We were also told that if we knew what you were going to say, act and behave, we should have coached you as to what to say, how to act and behave when you are going to an interview on US national TV.
Nowadays, it seems like everyone is an expert. Everyone is dashing their free advice after the fact when the interview of Morocco's UN Ambassador with CNN is aired on national TV. While the interview was over and done with, the free advice was pouring from all sides. This is understandable because the issue of the Western Sahara is in the mind of most Moroccans.
The Perfectionists amongst us would have wanted the interview to go their way, the Score Keepers would have wanted it to go another way, the Nay Sayers would have wanted it to go in no way. Some have even alluded to a theory which they have tested when dealing with female journalists which is fail proof in reaching the perception they want to convey in an interview when dealing with a women interviewer. I can continue on and on.
I say to all of these after the fact free advisors: Where were you with your constructive advice prior to the interview. We all know that the Western Sahara issue for the Moroccan people transcends all differences between us may they be generational, educational, political etc…All of you could have reached by phone or email Mr. Loulitchki and give him your positive advice as to how to deal with interviewers working for the US national media and especially if they are women. I am sure he would have welcomed the advice.
No one should question the relevancy of the interview between a polite and reserved Ambassador and the fierce Amanpour who seems to give the impression that her main concern is her show rating and media ranking. Amanpour should not be blamed for her interview tactics. She was doing her job as a member of a media in the United States that is more interested in scoring points. After all, Miss Amanpour has been changing jobs going from one news media organization to the other and back to the other. She had to protect her image of being tough in her interviews in dealing with sensitive issues to please not only her professional ego, but also her director, sponsors and in this instance the Algerian lobby in Washington DC and the "Spanish Matador" who is by no means El Cordobes, El Viti or Paco Camino or shall I call him Don Quixote.
But being tough and being ethical in one’s job performance is like a thin line between right and wrong. But in this situation both Miss Amanpour and Ambassador Loulitchki have been criticized.
I wonder where Miss Amanpour was when the Late President Sadat of Egypt stated in his speech at a lunch which I attended as a reporter which was offered on his behalf at the National Press Club where he said: “the Media in the United States is the fourth pillar branch of the United States Government after the Executive, Legislative and the Judicial branches. It is the watch dog which through its unabashed sense of fairness and irreproachable ethics keeps the other 3 branches on the right path”
There use to be a free and unbiased media in the United States but politics, ideology and money have co-opted, usurped and corrupted the US Media. Remember the role of the US Media during war in Iraq? Fortunately the latest political impasse in the US is forcing a conscience awakening (a prise de conscience) on the media to play its honorable role once again and break the US Government political stalemate between the Executive branch and the two other branches by calling a spade a spade in a fair and just manner.
Miss Amanpour should play her role as a neutral reporter and rectify the misperceptions she created in her interview with Ambassador Loulitchki. She should go to Layoune, Dakhla and Tindouf and why not Rabat and Algiers and have direct free hand to see and interview in her fiercely way whomever she likes and report freely on her finding. This type of action will not only honor US reporting a la late President Sadat, a man of peace, but will also allow Miss Amanpour’s requests for future interviews with Arab and Moslem leaders to be welcomed with open arms. Everyone is watching how her interview of Ambassador Loulitchki got her entangled in this 35 year Moroccan-Algerian conflict. Everyone is also watching how her next move in rectifying the shots about the political antagonism between Morocco and Algeria over the Western Sahara issue in a fair approach will get her out of this self inflicted quagmire.
I am positive that most of would like Miss Amanpour to do part 2 of her reporting on the Western Sahara, free of that Spanish "Rigolo", so that she can continue to be believable and respectable in our part of the world where unbiased reporting is needed.
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Comments (28)
-4
#1
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-12 13:27
As an Algerian I want to say I really like Morocco board's style of article-writing . It beats out the "we are so much better and more sassy/here comes the sarcasm" American media bs, so yeah, good stuff
+1
#2
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-12 14:26
Chtaini Salamo Alaykom.
Some of us have been hard on the ambassador because we want to be represented at our best. I am personally sick and tired that any time that the Sahara issue in brought up, our representatives always play defense. They don't seem to be convinced of the sacred cause. They don't show heart. I know that we can do better for the simple reason, the Sahara conflict is an Algerian baby. Conceived and produced by the Algerians and when you witness your Representative avoiding the mere mention of Algeria when you yourself know that Algeria is the root of all evil, why not say it the way it is and say that the Sahara issue will only get resolved when Algerian defer the issue to the US and not be part of the issue.
I know that every time Moroccan officials mention Algeria, the butchers of Al Moradia come out swinging and just few weeks ago when Benkirane mentioned Algeria, their cancer stricken prez came out and sent a letter to his polisario puppet indicating that he wants to "help Morocco" abide with international legality.
The interview for us is not and should not be about Amanpour or the Spanish actor, it is about how we are represented and how la cause sacree is dealt with.
You asked that we should phone the ambassador. How about if he perhaps take a peek at MB and will see what Moroccan Americans feel about his interview.
We can go on and complain about Amanpour's Bias from the get go, about the Spanish actor interfering in Moroccan issues instead of the Spanish ones. I think it is more about how WE can counter these attacks when they arise again.
Amanpour mentioned that since 2011 the US congress is stipulating that Morocco should correct their Human Rights record before any arms are sold to Morocco, that was surprising to me because i have not heard such a thing especially that in 2010 the Moroccan Military received their F24 Jets and the Ambassador did not have a related reply for the Journalist.
Look, I know that we can do better because frankly our cause is more convincing. I invite you to watch many of the Polisario interviews that are availbale online and you will notice that they speak with heart and conviction and above all they rely on women to do all the talk for them.
I never seen a Moroccan woman talking/defendi ng the Sahara and the composition of our government (one woman) speaks volume.
We have still much work to do my friend.
Some of us have been hard on the ambassador because we want to be represented at our best. I am personally sick and tired that any time that the Sahara issue in brought up, our representatives always play defense. They don't seem to be convinced of the sacred cause. They don't show heart. I know that we can do better for the simple reason, the Sahara conflict is an Algerian baby. Conceived and produced by the Algerians and when you witness your Representative avoiding the mere mention of Algeria when you yourself know that Algeria is the root of all evil, why not say it the way it is and say that the Sahara issue will only get resolved when Algerian defer the issue to the US and not be part of the issue.
I know that every time Moroccan officials mention Algeria, the butchers of Al Moradia come out swinging and just few weeks ago when Benkirane mentioned Algeria, their cancer stricken prez came out and sent a letter to his polisario puppet indicating that he wants to "help Morocco" abide with international legality.
The interview for us is not and should not be about Amanpour or the Spanish actor, it is about how we are represented and how la cause sacree is dealt with.
You asked that we should phone the ambassador. How about if he perhaps take a peek at MB and will see what Moroccan Americans feel about his interview.
We can go on and complain about Amanpour's Bias from the get go, about the Spanish actor interfering in Moroccan issues instead of the Spanish ones. I think it is more about how WE can counter these attacks when they arise again.
Amanpour mentioned that since 2011 the US congress is stipulating that Morocco should correct their Human Rights record before any arms are sold to Morocco, that was surprising to me because i have not heard such a thing especially that in 2010 the Moroccan Military received their F24 Jets and the Ambassador did not have a related reply for the Journalist.
Look, I know that we can do better because frankly our cause is more convincing. I invite you to watch many of the Polisario interviews that are availbale online and you will notice that they speak with heart and conviction and above all they rely on women to do all the talk for them.
I never seen a Moroccan woman talking/defendi ng the Sahara and the composition of our government (one woman) speaks volume.
We have still much work to do my friend.
+5
#3
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-12 16:58
I just want to add something to the Algerian reading this blog. At first glimpse, Morocco Board sounds like a bunch of people hating Algeria.
It is not. Moroccans do respect the Algerians, the Algerian citizen that is. There is no reason whatsoever for Moroccans " a' en vouloir aux Algeriens". When authors and commentators mention Algeria is not because they have to settle score with the Algerian citizen. They do is because the Algerian leadership is the devil, the axis of African evil. It is constituted by people who indiscriminatel y killed and raped 100s of 1000s of innocent Algerians?
This is not something I invented, All Algerians should have the balls and the nif to recognize this fact. There is no shame in that. We would consider you more a person with a nif when you so. We would not look down on you. We have evolved, we know that it is not something the Algerian citizen has done, You were just as a victim and those who paid with their lives.
I really hope that we are clear and I am sure that I speak for all Moroccans here.
Our problem is with your leadership and those working for your leadership such the agents that we see here.
Again, I want to challenge the Algerians that come over here to answer one simple question.
" what does the Moroccan leadership do to harm the country of Algeria? "
I really want an Algerian or even a Moroccan to tell us since the enthronement of M6 in 1999, 14 years ago, what has Morocco done to harm the republic of Algeria?
I know that no one would have a valid answer because Morocco had offered to turn the page over and over again, the King asked Bouteflika on many occasions to defer the Sahara issue to the UN and let's build the Maghreb, Bouteflika refused because he is under the commands of the Military militia who placed him at the commands.
MB, Don't censor please!
It is not. Moroccans do respect the Algerians, the Algerian citizen that is. There is no reason whatsoever for Moroccans " a' en vouloir aux Algeriens". When authors and commentators mention Algeria is not because they have to settle score with the Algerian citizen. They do is because the Algerian leadership is the devil, the axis of African evil. It is constituted by people who indiscriminatel y killed and raped 100s of 1000s of innocent Algerians?
This is not something I invented, All Algerians should have the balls and the nif to recognize this fact. There is no shame in that. We would consider you more a person with a nif when you so. We would not look down on you. We have evolved, we know that it is not something the Algerian citizen has done, You were just as a victim and those who paid with their lives.
I really hope that we are clear and I am sure that I speak for all Moroccans here.
Our problem is with your leadership and those working for your leadership such the agents that we see here.
Again, I want to challenge the Algerians that come over here to answer one simple question.
" what does the Moroccan leadership do to harm the country of Algeria? "
I really want an Algerian or even a Moroccan to tell us since the enthronement of M6 in 1999, 14 years ago, what has Morocco done to harm the republic of Algeria?
I know that no one would have a valid answer because Morocco had offered to turn the page over and over again, the King asked Bouteflika on many occasions to defer the Sahara issue to the UN and let's build the Maghreb, Bouteflika refused because he is under the commands of the Military militia who placed him at the commands.
MB, Don't censor please!
+2
#4
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-12 17:26
You're right, most of us are guilty of Monday Morning Quarterbacking -- But so are you Mr. Chtaini. What have you done? You are chastising us for not offering a beforehand advice -- but what did you do? After all, most of us commentators are not paid agents... We do so purely out of our Moroccanism and love of the country we grew up in.
Aside from MoroccanGurl, most commentators thought that Mr. Louluchki's performance was sub-par to say the least. There is plenty in JR, Morcelli, man en blanc and many others others comments as to why that is... As for Mr. Azayi, I think he did a masterful job going after that you know who.
Mr. Chtaini, guidance and advice have been provided numerous times but our elected/appoint ed official were too stubborn to listen.
Aside from MoroccanGurl, most commentators thought that Mr. Louluchki's performance was sub-par to say the least. There is plenty in JR, Morcelli, man en blanc and many others others comments as to why that is... As for Mr. Azayi, I think he did a masterful job going after that you know who.
Mr. Chtaini, guidance and advice have been provided numerous times but our elected/appoint ed official were too stubborn to listen.
+5
#5
Boutef and Mohammed 6 tear down this wall —
2013-03-12 22:03
Brothers and sisters from Morocco, this is a must watch. I don't know why the borders are still closed
Samir from Algeria
Samir from Algeria
+3
#6
Everybody knows —
2013-03-13 07:03
With all due respect Mr Chtaini, this politician has simply done a disservice to our nation and is in no way qualified to occupy his post .I can't help but feel offended that he would blow out a chance like this one to educate viewers on the matter.
Also Amanpour should take a look into the Algerian generals harsh treatment of the Kabyle tribes as well as the tuaregs that oppresses them and ostracizes them on a daily basis .
Now those are the ones that have no voice !!
As a matter of fact Sahraouis in Morocco have been benefiting from reverse discrimination for a long time compared to the rest of the population.
That is the simple truth and the fact that she has been enlightening such a superificial issue shows that she lacks serious insight.
Also Amanpour should take a look into the Algerian generals harsh treatment of the Kabyle tribes as well as the tuaregs that oppresses them and ostracizes them on a daily basis .
Now those are the ones that have no voice !!
As a matter of fact Sahraouis in Morocco have been benefiting from reverse discrimination for a long time compared to the rest of the population.
That is the simple truth and the fact that she has been enlightening such a superificial issue shows that she lacks serious insight.
+1
#7
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-13 11:59
Thanks Samir for the clips. Very touching. For those who do not have time to watch the clips.
A Moroccan and an Algerian who have been friends for more than 60 years, The Algerian would visit Oujda, The Moroccan would visit Tlemcen have not seen each other since the closing of the borders, A Tunisian TV show brought them both to meet for the first time after 17 years.
Both were every emotional to see each other, I have never seen elderly men in their mid 80s cry.
They themselves do not understand why the borders are closed when we so much in common.
What struck me the most is these men are from countries that helped each other to end the french colonization, and they will most likely pass without even seeing peace between the ones who were once brothers and sisters.
Many of us here will certainly pass without ever seeing peace between Morocco and Algeria and I am not sure that our children will ever see peace either. The leaders of both countries have planted so much hate and now we are cultivating the seeds of hate.
I never thought that i will be defending the Moroccan government but when it comes to the Sahara, we cannot deny that the Moroccans want peace and unfortunately Algeria is simply not interested.
And the sad part is that the next generation of Algerians is not interested either. They think that they can do it alone without ever needing a United Maghreb. They see that Morocco, Tunisia and Mauritania will be the one benefiting. Oh how wrong they can be. If they would only see how poor was Spain before joining the EU and how bigger of a Market Spain has become after joining the EU.
I am still at awe that younger people are thinking the same way their ancestors did.
Don't they want to be their own selves? Don't they want to take a shot at peace?
A Moroccan and an Algerian who have been friends for more than 60 years, The Algerian would visit Oujda, The Moroccan would visit Tlemcen have not seen each other since the closing of the borders, A Tunisian TV show brought them both to meet for the first time after 17 years.
Both were every emotional to see each other, I have never seen elderly men in their mid 80s cry.
They themselves do not understand why the borders are closed when we so much in common.
What struck me the most is these men are from countries that helped each other to end the french colonization, and they will most likely pass without even seeing peace between the ones who were once brothers and sisters.
Many of us here will certainly pass without ever seeing peace between Morocco and Algeria and I am not sure that our children will ever see peace either. The leaders of both countries have planted so much hate and now we are cultivating the seeds of hate.
I never thought that i will be defending the Moroccan government but when it comes to the Sahara, we cannot deny that the Moroccans want peace and unfortunately Algeria is simply not interested.
And the sad part is that the next generation of Algerians is not interested either. They think that they can do it alone without ever needing a United Maghreb. They see that Morocco, Tunisia and Mauritania will be the one benefiting. Oh how wrong they can be. If they would only see how poor was Spain before joining the EU and how bigger of a Market Spain has become after joining the EU.
I am still at awe that younger people are thinking the same way their ancestors did.
Don't they want to be their own selves? Don't they want to take a shot at peace?
-3
#8
Shame you Gustava Azayi —
2013-03-13 15:32
You see Gustava, you think I have finshed with
you? Completo No! I am still looking for you everywhere on this board trying to find where you are. I know you might be here. So please answer me because it is importante to answer my question for me. I am completo angry about how you see my image, Me Barenemetto the great special Hollywood actor from the canaries, and also how you see the greatest journalist in the history of the western world. Por favor explain to me what is the definition of Diplomacy and what is your definition of the logic of taking famous journalists to bed in order to score. Muchas Gratias Gustava Azayi image of C
you? Completo No! I am still looking for you everywhere on this board trying to find where you are. I know you might be here. So please answer me because it is importante to answer my question for me. I am completo angry about how you see my image, Me Barenemetto the great special Hollywood actor from the canaries, and also how you see the greatest journalist in the history of the western world. Por favor explain to me what is the definition of Diplomacy and what is your definition of the logic of taking famous journalists to bed in order to score. Muchas Gratias Gustava Azayi image of C
-4
#9
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-13 18:26
Most Algerian generals are Kbaylie including the head of the DRS and RCD and RND Parties
+2
#10
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-13 21:30
Mr Chtaini,
The Moroccan Ambassador should have reminded Amanpour that the fathers and grandfathers of this Jane Fonda wanna be are at the roots of this problem in the Sahara. One.
He shouldn't waste time on the why Moroccan representatives didn't show up in the movie, they were wise not to, because he would have ditorded their message, the same way he is distorting the facts. Two.
He didn't watch the movie or he did, why is it an issue? what's new that Bardem discovered and we didn't know about, Aji A Mi nwarikl dar khwali? Three.
Amanpour talks about details, remind her that the whole problem is a detail, for start, the population in 1975 was in the 50,000 ...
When she talks about Sahraoui, he needs to stop her, and explain to her that most Sahraouis live in the "undisputed territories", and that includes the father of the now President of "polisario"... and that includes the President himself who grew up in Morocco, didn't mind going to school and getting a scholarship to live on when he was student at the university in Rabat...
When she speaks about referendum, the population is nomad, and both sides were trying to frame the rules so as to win, in the earlier criteria proposed by the polisario, the father of the current president wouldn't pass the test... they made few adjustments after they were ridiculed...
The cease-fire was just a way for Morocco to give an opportunity for a peaceful end to the military struggle, which Morocco won... she can visit if she doesn't believe
If bardem wants to play the intellectually motivated one, no problems, why doesn't he start by Sebta and Melilia, Jane Fonda went to Vietnam, against her own country, if he wants to mimic her, he needs to stand against his people's interests not following Generalissimo Franco agenda, or maybe there is it that there are no clouds in Sebta and Melilia? or is it the sons of Moro he doesn't like very much...
And to start, remind her that no Moroccan would be interested in bardem and his movie, the total lack of intellectual integrity of this guy is abhorrent, he never apologized for condemning Morocco for the hundred deaths in Gdim Izik when all victims were unarmed security agents, that were killed cowardly by the thugs hired by the other thugs in Algeria...
And always start with Gadhafi, and Boumediane and the DAF generals and finish with Gadhafi, boumediane and the DAF generals...
Millions of civilians died in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere, and I've never seen Amanpour talk down to any American or British official the same way she did to our ambassador, and he just let her get away with it???
And always remind everybody, 10 times each interview, that we won the war and we want the peace...
The Moroccan Ambassador should have reminded Amanpour that the fathers and grandfathers of this Jane Fonda wanna be are at the roots of this problem in the Sahara. One.
He shouldn't waste time on the why Moroccan representatives didn't show up in the movie, they were wise not to, because he would have ditorded their message, the same way he is distorting the facts. Two.
He didn't watch the movie or he did, why is it an issue? what's new that Bardem discovered and we didn't know about, Aji A Mi nwarikl dar khwali? Three.
Amanpour talks about details, remind her that the whole problem is a detail, for start, the population in 1975 was in the 50,000 ...
When she talks about Sahraoui, he needs to stop her, and explain to her that most Sahraouis live in the "undisputed territories", and that includes the father of the now President of "polisario"... and that includes the President himself who grew up in Morocco, didn't mind going to school and getting a scholarship to live on when he was student at the university in Rabat...
When she speaks about referendum, the population is nomad, and both sides were trying to frame the rules so as to win, in the earlier criteria proposed by the polisario, the father of the current president wouldn't pass the test... they made few adjustments after they were ridiculed...
The cease-fire was just a way for Morocco to give an opportunity for a peaceful end to the military struggle, which Morocco won... she can visit if she doesn't believe
If bardem wants to play the intellectually motivated one, no problems, why doesn't he start by Sebta and Melilia, Jane Fonda went to Vietnam, against her own country, if he wants to mimic her, he needs to stand against his people's interests not following Generalissimo Franco agenda, or maybe there is it that there are no clouds in Sebta and Melilia? or is it the sons of Moro he doesn't like very much...
And to start, remind her that no Moroccan would be interested in bardem and his movie, the total lack of intellectual integrity of this guy is abhorrent, he never apologized for condemning Morocco for the hundred deaths in Gdim Izik when all victims were unarmed security agents, that were killed cowardly by the thugs hired by the other thugs in Algeria...
And always start with Gadhafi, and Boumediane and the DAF generals and finish with Gadhafi, boumediane and the DAF generals...
Millions of civilians died in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere, and I've never seen Amanpour talk down to any American or British official the same way she did to our ambassador, and he just let her get away with it???
And always remind everybody, 10 times each interview, that we won the war and we want the peace...
+1
#11
Let me put in my two cents... —
2013-03-14 00:46
I agree with most of the points made in the discussion.
1. Our beef has NEVER been against the people of Algeria and i am sure it is the same with the Algerians with us. Both governments are "ouled haram" but to be fair the Algerian "ouled haram" are worse than the ones currently in Morocco.
2. No doubt the Ambassador is to blame for his blunder. For couscous sake you are the Ambassador you should be well prepared for your debut on CNN. This isn't 2M or Almaghrebiya not soft pitches. Anyone who goes on the news must be prepared or else they and the cause they represent will look bad in a stupid way.
3. The article comically mentions that as Moroccan American we can just pick up the phone or email the Ambassador's office for advice or commentary. I think the writer must have been in the United States a little too long to remember that the Moroccan government does not give a couscous about what the citizens think.
That point was made a million times in other articles including the ones on RAM.
1. Our beef has NEVER been against the people of Algeria and i am sure it is the same with the Algerians with us. Both governments are "ouled haram" but to be fair the Algerian "ouled haram" are worse than the ones currently in Morocco.
2. No doubt the Ambassador is to blame for his blunder. For couscous sake you are the Ambassador you should be well prepared for your debut on CNN. This isn't 2M or Almaghrebiya not soft pitches. Anyone who goes on the news must be prepared or else they and the cause they represent will look bad in a stupid way.
3. The article comically mentions that as Moroccan American we can just pick up the phone or email the Ambassador's office for advice or commentary. I think the writer must have been in the United States a little too long to remember that the Moroccan government does not give a couscous about what the citizens think.
That point was made a million times in other articles including the ones on RAM.
+1
#12
Sleep Under the Stars —
2013-03-14 08:28
Where in the Great Sahara from Egypt to Morocco and Mauritania could someone sleep under the stars without fear of being abducted by terrorists?
If you know the answer to this simple question, you are closer to the truth.
Forget about diplomats who want to draw an imaginary line in shifting sand dunes. It's literally a mirage. It's like the Zimbabwe space programme.
Now a brief lesson in history. Algeria has a fat bottom because France wanted one. I know in an age of size-zero supermodels, the French seem to have got it wrong. But they can't help it. Their generals used to love big derrieres. Lyauty came to us from Algeria and we all know he loved derrieres of the male kind. He was gay. He can't help it.
Plus, Morocco lost the Eastern part of its Sahara where the Polisario camps are because France wants its "departement francais" to be just little bit bigger than the neighbours next door.
As to our diplomats talking, that's a start since most of them are from the old school. They do not talk to the public. They prefer to chat behind closed doors.
But in a world of Twitter and Facebook, the job of the modern diplomat is to be present everywhere at a short notice, including the virtual world.
Back to history, a British Lord once told his monarch not to send British troops to North Africa. He argued God created the Sahara desert so that the French cockerel may have some land to scratch its feet on.
If you know the answer to this simple question, you are closer to the truth.
Forget about diplomats who want to draw an imaginary line in shifting sand dunes. It's literally a mirage. It's like the Zimbabwe space programme.
Now a brief lesson in history. Algeria has a fat bottom because France wanted one. I know in an age of size-zero supermodels, the French seem to have got it wrong. But they can't help it. Their generals used to love big derrieres. Lyauty came to us from Algeria and we all know he loved derrieres of the male kind. He was gay. He can't help it.
Plus, Morocco lost the Eastern part of its Sahara where the Polisario camps are because France wants its "departement francais" to be just little bit bigger than the neighbours next door.
As to our diplomats talking, that's a start since most of them are from the old school. They do not talk to the public. They prefer to chat behind closed doors.
But in a world of Twitter and Facebook, the job of the modern diplomat is to be present everywhere at a short notice, including the virtual world.
Back to history, a British Lord once told his monarch not to send British troops to North Africa. He argued God created the Sahara desert so that the French cockerel may have some land to scratch its feet on.
+1
#13
Its a fact —
2013-03-15 13:02
To the person that said that the Algerian generals issue with the Kabylies doesn't exist read this.
magharebia.com/.../feature-02
This man has been forbidden from visiting his ill stricken mother by the Algerian generals and petition after petition has been made in vain because they would refuse to acknowledge those violations.
causes.com/.../...
So let's be honest here.A little tokenism here and there won't change the serious violations that have been going on .
As far as the Algerian generals attempting to fool everyone by creating the polizario so as to take over our country ( after we got our territories back from the Spanish ), the congress is not naive nor stupid they know that the Algerian generals are using them to take our country over.
magharebia.com/.../feature-02
This man has been forbidden from visiting his ill stricken mother by the Algerian generals and petition after petition has been made in vain because they would refuse to acknowledge those violations.
causes.com/.../...
So let's be honest here.A little tokenism here and there won't change the serious violations that have been going on .
As far as the Algerian generals attempting to fool everyone by creating the polizario so as to take over our country ( after we got our territories back from the Spanish ), the congress is not naive nor stupid they know that the Algerian generals are using them to take our country over.
0
#14
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-15 14:48
using Ferhat Mehinni to prove that the Algerian generals are bad towards the Kabyle is like me using Mohamed Abdelaziz as proof that the Polisario is being treated badly by Morocco...
+2
#15
Not the same —
2013-03-15 18:59
Sorry but your statement is not valid since we already offered a large autonomy to them and since they enjoy MORE benefits than the rest of the population while "the supposedly Sahraouis saviors" generals have been committing atrocities on other fronts .
We recognize that its none of our business so why can't they mind their own business ?
Also Aminatou is as Moroccan as Mohamed Abdelaziz ( whose dad was an officer in the Moroccan Army )and is now leading that stupid MILITARY front.
So basically anyone that is a deserter of their country can just get bribed by a neighboring country to start wars and claim a piece of their country for themselves ?!
That alone tells you that it makes no sense and shouldn't make any sense .
We have absolutely no link to the Kabylie cause while its already been established that Algeria created the Polisario front.
Yes they were past human right abuses in Morocco but that was indriscrimatory .It didn't matter what ethnicity or part of the country you were if you stuck your head out too much, were part of any coups, a hard core communist or deserted your country you got in trouble .
The only difference is that the Sahraouis got compensated while Moroccans from other parts of the country plus our captured army forces who had fought for their country and endured unspeakable torture ( for over 25 years ) never were .
On top of that Kabyles are pacifists with no links to terrosism unlike the polisario some of the members of which were involved in the recent kidnappings and murder of innocent Algerians and foreign workers.
Each country has its own unique traits so it would be impossible to compare the two.The Kabylies and the polisario are two totally different matters .I am even ashamed to put them in the same sentence.
To Mr.Haras, yep someone needs to tell Franquist Bardem how irrational he sounds trying to pull off another Clooney act ( No pun intended I like Clooney) .
All it comes down to is sour grapes because Spain had to give us back our land .Its as simple as that .
We recognize that its none of our business so why can't they mind their own business ?
Also Aminatou is as Moroccan as Mohamed Abdelaziz ( whose dad was an officer in the Moroccan Army )and is now leading that stupid MILITARY front.
So basically anyone that is a deserter of their country can just get bribed by a neighboring country to start wars and claim a piece of their country for themselves ?!
That alone tells you that it makes no sense and shouldn't make any sense .
We have absolutely no link to the Kabylie cause while its already been established that Algeria created the Polisario front.
Yes they were past human right abuses in Morocco but that was indriscrimatory .It didn't matter what ethnicity or part of the country you were if you stuck your head out too much, were part of any coups, a hard core communist or deserted your country you got in trouble .
The only difference is that the Sahraouis got compensated while Moroccans from other parts of the country plus our captured army forces who had fought for their country and endured unspeakable torture ( for over 25 years ) never were .
On top of that Kabyles are pacifists with no links to terrosism unlike the polisario some of the members of which were involved in the recent kidnappings and murder of innocent Algerians and foreign workers.
Each country has its own unique traits so it would be impossible to compare the two.The Kabylies and the polisario are two totally different matters .I am even ashamed to put them in the same sentence.
To Mr.Haras, yep someone needs to tell Franquist Bardem how irrational he sounds trying to pull off another Clooney act ( No pun intended I like Clooney) .
All it comes down to is sour grapes because Spain had to give us back our land .Its as simple as that .
+1
#16
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-15 19:09
Mr Chtaini,
A couple of sentences in your article left me confused and puzzled. The rest is debatable, as usual. So no need to hash out old arguments.
You wrote "All of you could have reached by phone or email Mr. Loulitchki and give him your positive advice as to how to deal with interviewers working for the US national media and especially if they are women. I am sure he would have welcomed the advice."
You cannot be serious. This must be a joke. First of all, how are we supposed to know that the ambassador was scheduled for an interview with CNN? Is there a specific public, or otherwise, calendar that shows the ambassador's daily/weekly/mo nthly activities? And which phone # and/or e-mail address should one call or send e-mail to offer the so called advice? I'm sure that the ambassador is dying to hear from many of us.
I'm sure you'd agree that this is not an internship. Whomever has that title should be a high level diplomat. Otherwise, he wouldn't be representing Morocco at the UN. Would he? Therefore, he should be aware of the different US media outlets, key journalists, and News programs. Isn't there a press liaison or spokesperson for the Moroccan delegate at the UN?
I'm not a diplomat nor a journalist. I don't claim that I have expertise in either area. However, that shouldn't stop me, or anyone else for that matter, to give feedback, and share point of views on this forum. I'm not responsible for the ambassador's job nor his performance on any given interview or decisions he makes. That's something he and his bosses to own. Whomever is making ambassadorship selection is ultimately responsible.
The ambassador's sub-par performance in that interview cannot be laid at the Moroccan-Americ an citizens' door.
A couple of sentences in your article left me confused and puzzled. The rest is debatable, as usual. So no need to hash out old arguments.
You wrote "All of you could have reached by phone or email Mr. Loulitchki and give him your positive advice as to how to deal with interviewers working for the US national media and especially if they are women. I am sure he would have welcomed the advice."
You cannot be serious. This must be a joke. First of all, how are we supposed to know that the ambassador was scheduled for an interview with CNN? Is there a specific public, or otherwise, calendar that shows the ambassador's daily/weekly/mo nthly activities? And which phone # and/or e-mail address should one call or send e-mail to offer the so called advice? I'm sure that the ambassador is dying to hear from many of us.
I'm sure you'd agree that this is not an internship. Whomever has that title should be a high level diplomat. Otherwise, he wouldn't be representing Morocco at the UN. Would he? Therefore, he should be aware of the different US media outlets, key journalists, and News programs. Isn't there a press liaison or spokesperson for the Moroccan delegate at the UN?
I'm not a diplomat nor a journalist. I don't claim that I have expertise in either area. However, that shouldn't stop me, or anyone else for that matter, to give feedback, and share point of views on this forum. I'm not responsible for the ambassador's job nor his performance on any given interview or decisions he makes. That's something he and his bosses to own. Whomever is making ambassadorship selection is ultimately responsible.
The ambassador's sub-par performance in that interview cannot be laid at the Moroccan-Americ an citizens' door.
+1
#17
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-15 20:44
I only blame the Ambassador for not viewing the movie in question before the interview. How could he answer the questions about the movie, when he admitted during the beginning of the interview that he hadn't seen it? Knowing the subject of the interview, why didn't he study the movie before the interview? He may have wanted to act as some Moroccans and feel that if he ignored the movie it wouldn't exist, but in the American media world, this doesn't work. And he is working in America.
0
#18
THE FOLLIES OF IT ALL —
2013-03-15 22:01
Been to Morocco lately? I mean : have you been to Morocco as an immigrant working crappy jobs in this great country, trying to brighten up the lives back home with the few dollars you got left after slaving your life away?,and NOT as an arrogant worm who milked our corruption-frie ndly system so IT can post rambling musings about the Sahara, while sleazingly praising the palace?
Here is a news flash guys :No one in Morocco, or at least in Casablanca, could give a toba's ass about the Sahara! Trust me. I was there recently. Casaouis have about 300, if not hundred times that, issues that occupy their Daily lives, every single moment is dedicated to NOW, and not to the Sahara. And that's for damn sure. Moroccans are smart enough to know that as far as the Sahara is concerned , Yesterday IS Tomorrow.
So, shall we end this exercise in futility? the Algerian Junta won the P.R. war many moons ago. It might be a different story on the ground, but perception is the only reality that's batting a thousand these days in our messy corner of this sorry planet.
Which brings me back to our esteemed officials. You know , our ambassadors, our ministers, our port-paroles..b la, bla, bla. Do you sincerely think that if our Government was TRULY serious about that frustrating , decade-long imbroglio of a quarrel with Algiers, don't you think for a moment it wouldn't get an-all star Moroccan line-up of brains to argue our just cause? And win the darn thing once for all after forty years of HOT AIR that could have been used to solve our nation energy crisis ? Hello?
Never mind. Wax poetic all your heart desire, la caravane passe et j'aboie.
Here is a news flash guys :No one in Morocco, or at least in Casablanca, could give a toba's ass about the Sahara! Trust me. I was there recently. Casaouis have about 300, if not hundred times that, issues that occupy their Daily lives, every single moment is dedicated to NOW, and not to the Sahara. And that's for damn sure. Moroccans are smart enough to know that as far as the Sahara is concerned , Yesterday IS Tomorrow.
So, shall we end this exercise in futility? the Algerian Junta won the P.R. war many moons ago. It might be a different story on the ground, but perception is the only reality that's batting a thousand these days in our messy corner of this sorry planet.
Which brings me back to our esteemed officials. You know , our ambassadors, our ministers, our port-paroles..b la, bla, bla. Do you sincerely think that if our Government was TRULY serious about that frustrating , decade-long imbroglio of a quarrel with Algiers, don't you think for a moment it wouldn't get an-all star Moroccan line-up of brains to argue our just cause? And win the darn thing once for all after forty years of HOT AIR that could have been used to solve our nation energy crisis ? Hello?
Never mind. Wax poetic all your heart desire, la caravane passe et j'aboie.
0
#19
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-16 01:29
Quoting Jack:
he might have been too cheap to pay 5 bucks to neflix
I only blame the Ambassador for not viewing the movie in question before the interview. How could he answer the questions about the movie, when he admitted during the beginning of the interview that he hadn't seen it? Knowing the subject of the interview, why didn't he study the movie before the interview? He may have wanted to act as some Moroccans and feel that if he ignored the movie it wouldn't exist, but in the American media world, this doesn't work. And he is working in America.
he might have been too cheap to pay 5 bucks to neflix
+1
#21
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-16 10:17
@man en blanc,
You said "don't you think for a moment it wouldn't get an-all star Moroccan line-up of brains to argue our just cause?"
I hate to break it to you, we don't have the ALL_STAR team? You know why?
Because the system is too busy hiring and nursing their own.
The Sahara issue with the blessing with our dear king has been handled by Ben issa, Fassi fihri, and now the poor othmani, basically an ALL_FAILURE team.
It sounds to me that the system is too afraid - and rightfully so- to bring an all star team, if they do, the Sahara will get more publicity and why get publicity when the ball is in your court and you are not winning the game?
When you are on the losing side, you want to avoid publicity. That's the reason my friend the Polisario/Alger ia are everywhere and Morocco is hiding behind the tall palace walls.
Moroccan authorities are being slammed by human rights organizations on a daily basis and the last thing you want to do is to be out there. We have nothing to show for, therefore I said. No all star team now, this is not a good time.
Didn't you hear that medecins sans frontiers are fleeing Morocco alleging that the Moroccans are abusing African migrants who are using Morocco as a stepping stone to Europe?
As I keep saying over and over, we have much work to do, Perhaps another 40 years?
On the bright side, Morocco will never give up an inch of its Sahara, it is in Morocco, and in Morocco it will stay.
You said "don't you think for a moment it wouldn't get an-all star Moroccan line-up of brains to argue our just cause?"
I hate to break it to you, we don't have the ALL_STAR team? You know why?
Because the system is too busy hiring and nursing their own.
The Sahara issue with the blessing with our dear king has been handled by Ben issa, Fassi fihri, and now the poor othmani, basically an ALL_FAILURE team.
It sounds to me that the system is too afraid - and rightfully so- to bring an all star team, if they do, the Sahara will get more publicity and why get publicity when the ball is in your court and you are not winning the game?
When you are on the losing side, you want to avoid publicity. That's the reason my friend the Polisario/Alger ia are everywhere and Morocco is hiding behind the tall palace walls.
Moroccan authorities are being slammed by human rights organizations on a daily basis and the last thing you want to do is to be out there. We have nothing to show for, therefore I said. No all star team now, this is not a good time.
Didn't you hear that medecins sans frontiers are fleeing Morocco alleging that the Moroccans are abusing African migrants who are using Morocco as a stepping stone to Europe?
As I keep saying over and over, we have much work to do, Perhaps another 40 years?
On the bright side, Morocco will never give up an inch of its Sahara, it is in Morocco, and in Morocco it will stay.
-1
#22
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-16 19:59
Cher Morcelli, you know very well that African immigrants are treated like, I hate to say it, like garbage in Morocco. So Les Medecins Sans Frontieres organization didn't flee Morocco, it was driven out. And it is a venerable and credible organization. Sadly in Morocco,the powers that be, sometimes act like a Middle-Eastern fiefdom, read :Paranoia, and not like the cosmopolitan country that Morocco really is. Out of touch as usual.
Back to the Sahara, you said it's ours and we will never cede it to Algeria. I say we lost that wretched sand kingdom longtime ago. I respect your passion, I don't think you're wrong, but I don't believe that I am wrong either.
Conundrum :our Achilles heel.
Back to the Sahara, you said it's ours and we will never cede it to Algeria. I say we lost that wretched sand kingdom longtime ago. I respect your passion, I don't think you're wrong, but I don't believe that I am wrong either.
Conundrum :our Achilles heel.
-2
#23
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-17 16:13
Man en blanc. I agree with you totally.
Let's go back in time a bit. An old article from Le Monde Diplomatic. mondediplo.com/.../12asahara
I'm sure many of you have already read it. But just in case. And don't shoot the messenger. Let's be civil. lol
Let's go back in time a bit. An old article from Le Monde Diplomatic. mondediplo.com/.../12asahara
I'm sure many of you have already read it. But just in case. And don't shoot the messenger. Let's be civil. lol
+1
#24
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-17 18:59
We have not lost a thing bro. I don't know about you guys, for moe, I do not want to be boxed in and suffocated by Spain from the north and especially Algeria from the east and south.
That's the genius of Hassan II if you ask me.
Morocco should never ever be a slave to another Arab or Muslim country run bay those who kill their own.
For Spain holding Sebta and Mellilia , I don't have a problem with that because 99.9999 % of the inhabitants want to be Spanish.
That's the genius of Hassan II if you ask me.
Morocco should never ever be a slave to another Arab or Muslim country run bay those who kill their own.
For Spain holding Sebta and Mellilia , I don't have a problem with that because 99.9999 % of the inhabitants want to be Spanish.
0
#25
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-17 21:58
99.999% want to be Spanish according to you morcelli and that is a good reason to keep it in those colonizers hands? well then in that case Polisario should take the western sahara since 99.999% of them want to be a seperate nation. Or maybe the U.S should consume the third world since 99.999% of them want nothing more than to be here!
+2
#26
Really —
2013-03-17 23:41
Those who think that Morocco is loosing this conflict, in my opinion, are clueless...
A quote that is dear to my heart, is the one by "Al Capone" in "The Untouchables" when he says; "When you got an all out prizefight, you wait until the fight is over, one guy is left standing. and that's how you know who won"
In my opinion, Morocco is good on the strategy, lousy on the tactics... we engaged in a war, had a good strategy, but took too many avoidable losses, nevertheless, at the end, we won...
We had much more diplomatic setbacks in the past, but there are clear signs that the international community is not very worried about this problem, and the number of countries that recognize the Sahara as a country has gone down a lot since the cease-fire... and the fall of communism..
We were wasting much more resources during the war, but not anymore...
By now, the polisario has shifted its strategy to playing the human rights card, which they were, with the help of wealthy allies, they scored some good points, but it didn't change a thing...
Plenty of episodes that show at the same time, that the guys on the ground can make huge mistakes, old habits die hard, yet at the end, the effect is limited if not reverse..
I'll give a couple of examples, denying Aminatou Haidar entry to Morocco and the events in Gdim Izik...
Yes you can mention the guys in Casa that do not care about the sahara, which might be true... until they leave Morocco to find out the truth about the image of Morocco that Algeria is trying to sell to the world, the most passionate person about the Sahara I've ever met is indeed a Casaoui who didn't give a ... about politics before he came to the US...
Yes you can provide a link to Jacob Mundy, but then again, it says a lot when the article presents the participants in the green march as "Mujahidin"... articles like that i don't even bother to read, "How the US and Morocco", really, the US first, and what we are arguing about again, Morocco loosing its foot in the US, which he never had in the first place... if the Sahara issue is a testimony of anything, as is inserted by the facts in the article, it is that Hassan II had the guts to put everybody in the international community "devant le fait accompli"...
Now time for some real politics, the king will never give up on the Sahara, because if he does, the people who don't care about the Sahara, and those who care, all of them, will have a good reason to kick him out...
More real politics, Neither one of the two belligerents, Morocco and Algeria, will win with a KO, we will just have to wait until Algeria is out of Oil, then only then, because, as long as Algeria can afford to go to war, there will be no peace...
A quote that is dear to my heart, is the one by "Al Capone" in "The Untouchables" when he says; "When you got an all out prizefight, you wait until the fight is over, one guy is left standing. and that's how you know who won"
In my opinion, Morocco is good on the strategy, lousy on the tactics... we engaged in a war, had a good strategy, but took too many avoidable losses, nevertheless, at the end, we won...
We had much more diplomatic setbacks in the past, but there are clear signs that the international community is not very worried about this problem, and the number of countries that recognize the Sahara as a country has gone down a lot since the cease-fire... and the fall of communism..
We were wasting much more resources during the war, but not anymore...
By now, the polisario has shifted its strategy to playing the human rights card, which they were, with the help of wealthy allies, they scored some good points, but it didn't change a thing...
Plenty of episodes that show at the same time, that the guys on the ground can make huge mistakes, old habits die hard, yet at the end, the effect is limited if not reverse..
I'll give a couple of examples, denying Aminatou Haidar entry to Morocco and the events in Gdim Izik...
Yes you can mention the guys in Casa that do not care about the sahara, which might be true... until they leave Morocco to find out the truth about the image of Morocco that Algeria is trying to sell to the world, the most passionate person about the Sahara I've ever met is indeed a Casaoui who didn't give a ... about politics before he came to the US...
Yes you can provide a link to Jacob Mundy, but then again, it says a lot when the article presents the participants in the green march as "Mujahidin"... articles like that i don't even bother to read, "How the US and Morocco", really, the US first, and what we are arguing about again, Morocco loosing its foot in the US, which he never had in the first place... if the Sahara issue is a testimony of anything, as is inserted by the facts in the article, it is that Hassan II had the guts to put everybody in the international community "devant le fait accompli"...
Now time for some real politics, the king will never give up on the Sahara, because if he does, the people who don't care about the Sahara, and those who care, all of them, will have a good reason to kick him out...
More real politics, Neither one of the two belligerents, Morocco and Algeria, will win with a KO, we will just have to wait until Algeria is out of Oil, then only then, because, as long as Algeria can afford to go to war, there will be no peace...
-1
#27
RE: Media Coverage Of Western Sahara Conflict —
2013-03-17 23:52
Quoting really?:
You are comparing Polisario bunch of thugs pissing on Moroccan dead corpses with Spain a proven democracy?
When I last checked Morocco never had possession of those cities in the last 600 years, As a matter Moroccan authorities are abusing African migrants to prevent them from entering Sebta and Mellilia. Doing the dirty work for Spain.
Here is a tip, before you comment, read the news first.
99.999% want to be Spanish according to you morcelli and that is a good reason to keep it in those colonizers hands? well then in that case Polisario should take the western sahara since 99.999% of them want to be a seperate nation. Or maybe the U.S should consume the third world since 99.999% of them want nothing more than to be here!
You are comparing Polisario bunch of thugs pissing on Moroccan dead corpses with Spain a proven democracy?
When I last checked Morocco never had possession of those cities in the last 600 years, As a matter Moroccan authorities are abusing African migrants to prevent them from entering Sebta and Mellilia. Doing the dirty work for Spain.
Here is a tip, before you comment, read the news first.
+1
#28
Really 2 —
2013-03-18 00:20
a story on the conflict in the Sahara with no mention of Gaddafi, ... they call it scholarly integrity...
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