| Morocco: Widening Rift Between Opponents On New Constitution |
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| ZOUHAIR BAGHOUGH | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Tuesday, 21 June 2011 21:58 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CJB
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aes That's what Morocco is, we take a chance on wanting to be original and we usually succeed. We exist in a region that is not the Mideast and most of our outside exposure is to the west. As soon as the continents split from one another, and every since mankind walked out of the kalahari desert, the north west of Africa has always been influence by the new ideas coming from the other side of the Mediterranean sea. You forgot one thing, in the constitution, the old one and the new one, and for as long as Morocco had a legitimate King, the power is with the people. We consent to having a King, he is not a dictator. In other words the powers that the constitution say his majesty the king has, is balanced by the powers of the president of the government as well as the parliament, but more importantly is checked by the people. Our King knows that the power he has was given to him by the Moroccan Nation. The inherited legitimacy has always been so. Moroccans in the cities or the farms have always had a close knowledge of what their government (ie King) is about to do, and if they did not approve they walked to the palace and told him. If the King discovers a majority is not with his decision he gives a speech to change minds or changes his own mind. It's a respectful simple old system than needed update after the independence and again on July 1st ie this Friday. Get ready for a big party, Morocco will WIN just like Morocco won on June 04. منبت الأحرار مشرق الأنوار منتدى السؤدد وحماه دُمت منتداه وحماه عشتَ للأوطان للعلا عنوان ملئ كل جنان ذكرى كل لسان بالروح بالجسد هب فتاك لبى نداك في فمي وفي دمي هواك ثار نور ونار إخوتي هيا للعا سعيا نُشهد الدنيا أن هنا نحيا بشعار الله الوطن الملك |
aes
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Put up or shut up. Everyone seems to focus on the king's powers and no one is talking about the powers of the parliament and the Chief of government. What we have here ladies and gentlemen is a powerful king that must compose with other bodies. This was not the case before. It is now. Yes he is powerful but so is the Chief of government backed by the majority of the parliament. I find it very interesting. We have come up with our very own constitution. Bravo. No copy cat. Constitution by Moroccans For Moroccans. Let the party begin. |
man en blanc
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Democracy For Dummies. If we had genuine opposition parties as a counterweight to the regime, solid parties and not bad actors playing the role of the opposition, a constitution by the people, from the people and for the people would have emerged by now. Are you telling me that Abdeltif Menouni is the ONLY constitutional law scholar in Morocco? And that once the king appropriated him, we were left with nothing but teenagers and the bearded ones? Once again : Chapeau to the king! What we are witnessing today are the fruits of decades of social engineering to keep the power firmly in the hands of the chosen few! |
Morcelli
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... mbt, about Morocco is not Congo or Bangladesh, I was being sarcastic if you have not noticed. Educated in Morocco does not necessarily mean they are employed, many of the educated are holding vigil in front of the parliament on the daily basis. The chances of finding a job right out of college oe years after college is sub zero unless they opt for selling cigarettes from the paillasson of their parents apartment? |
Morcelli
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... Many of my Moroccans friends are just happy that Morocco have not experienced any revolution, and for that, they are thankful to the king. For what? The real reason that no one is looting or vandalizing is because the majority of the protesters are calling for PEACEFUL revolution without ever asking for the overthrow of the king. They want to march with this king to attain a real democracy not a crumby one. These protesters do not want to go back a year from now and start all over again, they are giving this king many opportunities to implement what is needed to be done to make Morocco the first Arab country with a real democracy that serves the people of Morocco, instead, the king came up with a sham that will make him have more say on the way we breath. What is a "president of the government" who will always be at the king's mercy do to better the life of Moroccans? appoint the king's people behind the scenes? Are you aware that El himma wanted to "resign" but his people did not accept his resignation and therefore he is continuing as head of PAM? Are Moroccans that st&&*d? Let me ask those who are chanting YES, do you think that his willingness to resign is genuine? And by the way, I do not reply to kids right out of college when they make dumb statements, or those who stumble into this board to post something right out of MAP. goulou l3am zine:), for some reason i like this phrase. The other saying that I really like is " ignorance is a bliss". |
Chtaini
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... Chtaini Said@mbt, morcelli, sahrane and others: I know what Apache proposes: a. The king gets the same powers as the queen of England b. The parliament takes the same shape and powers of the american congress c. Judiciary can be similar to that of the US d. Civil liberties: a toned down version of that of France. Let us get right into it. What do you propose? We need to be civil about this. I honestly want to know what you want to propose because so far aside from bashing, I heard nothing from you that makes sense concerning positive changes in Morocco. |
mbt
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King the Deceiver Not so quick to judge, Morcelli, Morocco may not be Congo or Bangladesh but the poverty remains, military (or all the king's thugs) rule, bribery by the truck load, mismanagement by design, illiteracy, and more, won't be long before Morocco will be Congo or Bangladesh, I'd say it is already there just scratch the surface. The educated people will vote for the king as they want to climb the king's gravy train, the poor as usual are busy making a living. Won't be long now before we see the fireworks at the palaces of King the Deceiver. |
Rod
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... Haras, Insightful analysis....how can we expect anti-democratic groups to abide by the will of the people and the ballot box? Al Adl Wal Ihsan who is the poor cousin of the Taliban and their friends the far leftists who still dream of creating Collectives and challenging the free market are at a loss that they can not get even 50,000 people in any single protest...they're getting around 10,000 at mosts mostly bearded and veiled. |
Salim Bouzid
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Referendum Yes or NO? @aes, We have no clue how the educated class will vote. But we know for sure that most of them can read and understand the constitution and they can make sound judgment. If some educated people vote "Yes" on the constitution, it is likely because they prefer status Quo, they prefer political stability over a risky democracy. Many others, within the educated class, may abstain because they lost faith and trust in the system, or they may vote "NO" because the reform is not good enough. I think the majority agree that the constitution itself is not going to change the dynamic of politic and governance in days, but it is a step in the positive direction, yet the real change may come years from now. But without legal bases (a decent constitution), the change may never come! I spent few days reading the 180 articles of the new constitution, and I did compare them to the previous constitution, composed of 103 articles. I can tell you for sure that there is no hope for the new constitution...the king just rearranged his power round and kept control pretty much on every thing (religion, military, judiciary, parliament, government, and he is now the head of the new security council that he created. I don't know if you had a chance to read the reform, If you did not, please do and reply. I truly think that most educated Moroccans know that the reform is cosmetic, if they choose to vote "YES", it is mostly because they are not willing to take the risk. On the other hand, the non educated Moroccans are more vulnerable to the media propaganda, and can be manipulated more easily by the Mekhzen. when you take into account all these factors and the fact that most political parties are backing the reform, it is likely that "YES" will prevail, but in the absence of a mass participation. The question is whether it is constitutional and legal and ethical to pass a reform based on the vote of a small sample... |
sahrane
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I TOLD YOU SO 04/06/11 sahrane said: Guilty as charged. This is proof that all those speeches are just that, rhetorics,at best, don’t hold you breath ,they will come up with a cosmetic changes to put for a referendum and they’ll get 99.9% approval for ,wink wink. |
haras
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Si Zouhair It could have been a balanced article if it wasn't for two comments that I find particularly flawed. The first one is the " the wonder of Makhzenian machine is to work efficiently with no paperwork, no written directives, not even a concerted policy. And in this unique brand of authoritarianism, the regime can successfully manage to keep their hands clean, and at the same time elicit active support from mainstream political parties and local elected officials. “Do you want democracy? Here’s your neighborhood’s favorite tramp threatening you with a 15-inch machete“. Really, so the makhzen is this extraordinary bogeyman, so efficient, yet incapable to predict or prevent the whole 20 February movement? Why can't you accept that there are people who can't, just like you, bring themselves to liking al adl wa al ihsan, and there are others, like me, who will never forgive Mr AlHariff going to the European parliament and making his famous speech or his crook Riyadi calling for the UN to expand its mandate in the Sahara to HRs. The second one is the "obscure" HACA and the access to media rules?? so, according to you we need to accord the same amount of time to those who agree or disagree with the constitution, regardless of their weight or legal status??? what's the point of having those rules in the first place... we need to allow (maybe the same amount) those who call for a boycott??? why??? so that they can share their destructive stand??? don't vote??? is that the new wave in participative democracy??? chickening out is the politically correct now??? I was expecting from you a call for a clear and inflexible NO, but you seem to join those who prefer to call for a boycott so they can hide their true weight in the voting booth, and maybe claim afterwords, that they are the representatives of the huge majority they hope won't vote. It is a sad thing to see this movement end up the hostage of some cold calculating politicians, we were hoping at least for a new opposition who will bring some honesty to our dark political scene, and shake the old dinosaurs, we ended up with new faces but the same old tricks, and that is the sad truth in all of this... |
couscous king
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i had to ask my old man to translate some of the king's yadyada to tell you the truth , i didn't feel he gave up a lot of his power to accomodate the out cry of the moroccan poeple who still suffered from high unemployement, social divide,high debts that need to be paid back either to the french or the world bank with high yield yearly interest ,corruption , unjustice and the killing of innocents in secrets detention centers and prisons, illiterate and ignorance AND TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH I DON'T BELIEVE OR TRUST THE MOROCCAN VOTING SYSTEM IT'S SO CORRUPT AND DILLUTED TO THE CORE, so much for democracy and freedom in morocco.to me patriotic moroccans are the poor and working class who are trying to survive every day while the traitors are the the king's slaves,the rich, the fat cat of rabat and his maghzen who are trying to erase moroccan dignity and the voive of justice. |
sahrane
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... To Einstein’s family(aes) For well off people they want to keep it as is ,and if the king and his cronies did have nothing to hide why ,they gave the population 2 weeks to vote for a country’s future?it’s a shame.the king had a moment to rise to the occasion he chooses the easy way out he is trying to push the same constitution with a make up down the population throats and release his goons to intimidate and beat up the opposition ,by doing so he lost his legitimacy. |
Rod
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... Democracy is a very new concept to the vast Majority of Moroccans, everyone who calls people who don't share his/her opinion as Makhzenian or traitor needs to take Democracy 101 class, they must learn that you avoid at all costs insulting people who are on the other side of your argument and focus only on pushing your point of view, you will come across as the bigger person. From my observations, I see that most of the February 20th folks look down on people who don't agree with them, but one thing is very confusing, is it me or do You also think that it's oximoron to see communists and radical Islamists talk about democracy? Common ...give me a break |
aes
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Morocco is not Mac Donald Here we go again. The first comment by Morceli sneaks in an insult. According to this arrogant man who seems to know all Moroccans, the educated will vote NO. This implies that my sister who holds a doctorate and works for the UN would vote NO. This also implies that younger sister a journalist with business doctorate will vote NO. This also implies that my brother en engineer for AlCatel Maroc would vote NO. Well I got news for you Mr Educated, All the people above will vote yes and here is why: a) King has kept Morocco stable and has shown his desire for change even before Feb 20th. b) King has now shared enough powers with elected officials. These powers should enable them to get stronger and become more credible. Right now they are not. You know that. I know that. They even know that. Hopefully they will step up to the plate. Not sure. But possible. c) The "dreamers or perfectionists" tell us, the political parties are weak but give them all the powers anyway. (Parliamentary Monarchy?) For the computer scientist that I am, this argument does not fly. And that is why I am voting Yes. Just because you came to America and learned few advanced keywords does mot mean you are more intelligent than others. So keep a cool tool fool cause I am wise to the rise in your Levis. In any case the major political parties are happy. So why should we vote no? I mean if they are happy and they are all we have, who are we to think that they can handle more? Should we send every one home and start from scratch? Is that reasonable? Running a country is not like managing Mac Donald. I assume that Mac Donald is easy to manage. Never worked there. Have you Mr. Morceli? |
Morcelli
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... Mr. Zouhair, I am one of those who appreciate your contribution to this board, I also appreciate that you do your research to educate those of us who react swiftly and decisively to anything that comes our way in this board. With that being said, Moroccans are not as divided as you think they are. Let's take this blog as an example. the majority of posters here are educated and they understood that this constitution is flawed or a ruse. There are also those who say " well it's better than nothing, let's keep the peace." and of course the extreme minority says "goulou l3am zine" and I am sure everyone knows who am i talking about. Unfortunately, in Morocco the majority of voters are illiterate and will vote just because lmqaddam ask them to do so or to beat a ta3rija after every speech the king makes. Those who are educated back home, will never vote on such a sham. They are tired of 52 years of nothing especially in this era of fast communication. I mean seriously, when you are college educated and you did everything you are supposed to do not to leave anything to chance and you end up selling guarro detail why would you vote yes on a constitution that will strengthen the power of the crooks hired by M6??? To summarize what I want to say is: educated and jobless will vote NO or will not vote at all illiterate with job or jobless will vote YES If you combine the illiterate, the bribe taker, the politician and the vote rigger, you will end with a resounding YES. Please "goulou l3am zine" life is beautiful at least Morocco is not Congo or Bangladesh and that's big plus, right!? |
mbt
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It is fishy and it stinks When you have a rosy picture being painted by www.map.ma you know there is something fishy and it stinks. It is amazing that the Kingdom's Ulema have given their blessing to the new constitution, and as yet there is the question of vote counts. It is really shocking and disgusting to see how for the glitter of the chair one can stoop so low as to ignore all that is a beacon in our exemplary Khalifas of Islam in leading a nation. Remember if you follow Islam you have to do what Allah has commanded us otherwise we WILL incur the wrath of Allah SWT. May Allah forgive and guide us to a right path and not of those leaders who have strayed. Remember Allah's constitution, no change there, no cosmetics there and no Firaun there. |

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New York / Morocco Board News--The Campaign for Referendum Day has already started, and it is more than likely the next couple of weeks are going to be ugly, with Moroccans brocading others as traitors and un-Moroccans while others are branded as Makhzenian puppets.
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