Thursday, 17 May 2012
 
 

Paint The Town Moroccan


B'net Houariyat @ Kennedy Cntr

Morocco-US: Visa Talk

Hamid Kachmar's "Intricacies"
Constitution Referendum TV Debate


Moroccan Vocalist in Detroit  1  2

Polisario In Washington


Kids:    "My Morocco"

 

Submit classified free
Moroccan Bureaucracy: Chasing Papers PDF Print
AMANDA MOUTTAKI
Thursday, 04 November 2010 15:11
Washington  / Morocco Board News Service-        I held off writing about bureaucracy because I didn’t know where to start, but where better than the beginning? My husband and I have tried unsuccessfully for the last five years to register our marriage, and the birth of our child in the US with the Moroccan consulates in both Washington DC and New York. In order to get my husband’s Livret d’Etat Civil (family book) these steps had to be completed. Our first attempt to mail in the information was accepted and simply never returned. We were told it was lost. Then we moved to Washington DC and thought that actually physically going to the consulate might warrant better results. It didn’t.

First my husband had to register with the consulate before they would do anything. That took a month. Then they told him he needed to update his Carte d’Identité Nationale (National ID). This had to be done in Morocco and would take some time (read 3 months). Are you still with me? – we’re at 4 months now. Another trip to the consul, whose hours are only 10am to 12pm daily to drop off paperwork, was fraught with more frustration. We had everything together that they wanted. We had a civil marriage, an Islamic ceremony with mosque certificates, we had everything translated and paid the fee and were assured they would call us as soon as it was done. In the meantime we went to Morocco for a vacation and attempted to complete the paperwork there as we were getting nowhere in Wisconsin. It had now been over a year since our son’s birth and it would have to be validated by a judge in Morocco anyway. We spent 3 days going between offices getting this stamp and that stamp trying to complete the process. We even had to go to Rabat to try and complete the process. Our trip to the birth registry was certainly eye-opening. After waiting for well over an hour in a waiting room while the staff literally sat within eye shot drinking tea and chatting we had our turn. And we were told that until our marriage was registered there was nothing we could do. We walked out empty handed; no birth registration, no marriage registration, and no family book.

Meanwhile back in the USA……We heard nothing for months. Finally my husband went back in and was told that there was a new consular and that our original application hadn’t been completed and there were new rules with the new consular. The new rules included the need to have 2 male witnesses, Moroccans, who were registered with the consulate come into the consulate to attest to our marriage. Seriously? Now not only did we have to take time off of work to deal with this situation we had to ask two of our friends to do the same thing. And what if we didn’t have Moroccan friends in the area? We couldn’t register our son’s birth unless our marriage was registered. This was a complete and utter mess. My husband was so upset by this that he told the consular that at this point we just didn’t care anymore. We have given up trying to complete any of these registrations. If at some point down the road we decide to live permanently in Morocco we will take up the battle again but for now, there’s no reason.

I can only imagine what the handling of simple mundane tasks is like every day all around Morocco. I did my fair share of complaining about American bureaucracy especially through the immigration process however our struggle with Moroccan bureaucracy has been a nightmare. There is no rhyme or reason to completing tasks. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the ever-changing rules and procedures, or lack thereof.


Article First published at Talk Morocco



 

While MoroccoBoard.com encourages discussion on all subjects, including sensitive ones, the comments posted are solely the views of those submitting them. MoroccoBoard.com does not necessarily endorse or agree with the ideas, views, or opinions voiced in these comments. This is a moderated forum. Comments deemed abusive, offensive, or those containing profanity may not be published.

 
Trackback(0)
Comments (28)add comment
feedSubscribe to this comment's feed

CCIE said:

if it did not happen to you don't write about it
well , I am in the same boat as amenda. years ago I decided to have my 3 daughters get their moroccan citizen and went trough the same process that amenda went trough, first I did not have la cart national as well as my wife , so I decided obtain one while I am vacationing there. after long standing in the lines like my other brother and sister I was able to submit required docs. I was told it will be in the mail within 2 weeks. after 2 weeks there was nothing in the mail and time come for me to get back into the state. I advised my family to send the card. My family called me 30 days later to tell me that finally the card is here. I was so happy because that would allow me to start the process of my daughters moroccan citizenship. the funny think is that when I received the card the expiration date was 10 years back 1998. my family told me to send it back to correct the error and to make the long story short ,the government asked me to comeback for finger print LOL, then I heard if I need to register my daughters I need to go to wizarate al jharijia and then see the judge and the story goes on and you probably know the rest. the end of story is I give up the moroccan passport, la cart national and anything have to do w/ the government. Moroccan government needs to know that we don't need morocco, morocco needs us , next time they may ask for DNA to prove if my daughters are actually mine or just because of the so many opportunities in morocco everyone wants to be a moroccan lol
04/28/11

kay said:

Moroccan passport&Moroccan ID
Hi I am a Moroccan citizen I live in Orlando I did apply to renew my passport and ID with Mobil consulate in Orlando in October 17/2010 this process cost me a lot of money and know no money no documents can you believe it??? I did send lot of e-mail and call phones
with no answer.
Please any one help me get my Moroccan document???
01/22/11

omar zemmama said:

...
Ailani, I just want Thank you for the consul number.Mr. Kassimi was really hopeful

Thank you,
01/06/11

Joxatoni said:

...
I ahve always had issues with Moroccan bureaucracy since I was a teenager, I left Morocco whan I was 18 and never wanted to go back to live there, I also had to face a few nightmarish situations with Moroccan consulates whenever I needed a paper or something that I could only ask to the Moroccan consulate. Well I have to say that to my biggest surprise when I lived in Abu Dhabi, my passport was expiring and I thought, holly molly, here we go, i have to deal with Moroccan drama at the Embassy, well, to my BIGGEST SURPRISE, my passport was done in two hours and the officers were very nice and helpful... I wish all of Morocco became this efficient!! On the other hand, I was disappointed at how maintained what was supposed to be an Embassy and in a country like Abu Dhabi, looked dirty and cheap, ugly garden, ugly stinky toilets, no couches or comfortable seats in a reception.... cpme on guys, UPGRADE! An embassy is supposed to be representative of a country and show its culure, such as decorations, interior design... WHAT THE...!
11/27/10

Simo Skotlandi said:

Did I get lucky?
last month i sent out a letter to register with the Moroccan consulate an to notorize procuration form and it took less than week. Mailed them on Friday and got them the following thursday. I was quiet impressed.
11/12/10

Moroccan said:

Bureaucracy!!
Well .. I think that things turned here from a discussion of the problem of bureaucracy in Moroccan Administration (that we can find elsewhere, by the way) to a "huge" critisism of Morocco.. I don't want to be rude and tell people who don't like Morocco to leave it and go to the lovely "US" ... but I want just to say that such difficulties are faced by everyone and it's not an excuse to describe morocco in a dark and insulting image.
@ Amanda, just don't give up.. one day, you will have all your papers completed and you'll forget all the headache you got untill now.. Good luck!
11/12/10

Al said:

Isn't that one of the reasons we left in the first place???
I don't know about your people but one of the main reasons some of us are here today is because we were fed up with the freaking bureaucracy. These types of things are the exact same reasons why we left in the first place. I have no desire to go back to that BS. I don't use their documents, I don't fly their airline and I am in peace with myself. I don't need any frustration thank you very much. I do not have an identity card? what s the point? I don't live there I don't work there and I do not own anything there. My wife is not Moroccan and we don't need a marriage certificate approved by any Moroccan bureaucrat.
We don't have any plans to live in Morocco and we do not own anything in Morocco.
We own property in another country where we spend our vacation in Europe and that is it.
As to my kids having a Moroccan citizenship, I really don't want them to. Our first generation Americans in the family only have an American citizenship and nobody in the family is even thinking about applying for anything from the consulate not now not in the future. If you are looking for headaches Moroccan bureaucrats will give them to you. If you ever need anything from a Moroccan bureaucrat God help you. That's why I have decided not to have anything with any Moroccan administration. I AM PROUD OF BEING AN AMERICAN, THE REST IS HISTORY.
11/11/10

Mouncef said:

Mobile Consulate in Chicago
If you still live in Wisconsin, then I suggest to wait for next time, the mobile consulate come to Chicago and you will get all your paper work done in one day. I volunteer with a non-profit organization (manachicago.com). We invite the consulate staff once a year so our community members don't have to travel to New York. We have situations like yours and were taking care of in one day. Only issue is expect to be there all day long. always over 300 people show up each day for the two day event. More info, contact us at manachicago@yahoo.com. Best of luck to you and your family.
11/10/10

Sharqia said:

Why bother?
Best of luck in your attempts. I was unwilling to pay bribes or expose my husband or my kids to the vagaries of a system designed to make the Moroccan "subject" feel like a peon, so we've elected not to register our marriage or our children. But if you can, please add your voice to those asking for the process to be rationalized. It should be possible for Moroccans to marry at the embassy and register their kids there--Moroccans in France can do it, why not us?
11/10/10

redouane said:

...
I am not sure why you and your husband took all these efforts just to make your marriage legal in Morocco. It is degrading to have to ask a bride that she needs two witnesses to attest to her marriage. I guess marriage is no laughing matter in Morocco when you are not from the creed.

It is true that all this is about a rotten bureaucracy but it is also cultural. A culture that has yet to waken up from a slumber lasting 1400 years.. It is also about ethnocentrism, in which one culture is set to be high and the other low, I let you guess which one is beleived to be high in the eyes of Moroccans, denying you a fair recognition of marriage proves what I am trying to say. Marriage is a faith based institution and if you are not born in that faith, (even though you say you converted) there is still suspisionand that's why to have to have 2-5 witnesses. If you were a morocan and you have father or a male guardian this all this stuff you want through would not have happened. Unfortunately, you were an outsider and your father would not even count (even if he was in morocco) you still will need two, three,and many a douzen "moroccan" witnesses.... and all this for a simple union of two people who love each other....Go figure... I still think it is ethnocentrism.. You may disagree but this bureaucracy issue is only the tip of the iceberg...
11/09/10

K.B said:

Don't give up
Your story reminded of the time when my first son was born and I decided to register him in the consulate and get his Moroccan passport. The first question was to go back to Morocco and get a marriage certificate from Morocco. The only problem was we could not go without my son who did not have his passport. I argued with them and they allowed me to have a marriage certificate from a local mosque. To make the very very long story short, I resorted to having a personality I knew from Rabat who made a simple phone call and I got all my papers in one week. I am not proud too proud, but this is the way things are in Morocco.
As for the decision to have your family registered and get them their Moroccan passport, I advise you to not give up. Having a dual citizenship helped us many times in our travels. Good luck to you.
11/09/10

morcelli said:

...
To be fair to the Moroccan staff in the consulate in NY, I once had to renew my passport and it was done efficiently and promptly. The person answering the phone could have been a little more friendlier. The limited hours could be extended. It would be even better if emails are answered.
One thing that everyone here fail to understand is that these staff were never trained or held responsible. They actually bring Morocco with them to the consulate. Do we blames them? no, I blame the system in general, i blame the top bosses who do not give a rat's ass, i blame fassi fihri, who is supposed to be the head.
There was a problem in the US post office and the DMV, where everyone was unhappy, go to the post office now and you will see that staff are much friendlier and more helpful. why? because they received the training needed to accomplish their job.

Morocco is a backward country run by filthy bosses who care mostly about their families and friends, and the rest can go to hell.
Mohamed 6 needs to summon all these crooks and give them some sort of warning that if things do not change, they will be replaced.
Only the king can shake things up. the question is : does he want to?
11/09/10

AA said:

Why even bother
Why go through the pain of dealing with the uneducated, unqualified, useless consular staff. Leave your son in peace,he was born in the US he is American and that is more than enough. When he grows up or you decide to live permanently in Morocco, then a couple of thousands of Dollrs will get a long way and no pain. That is the way it works in Morocco, and the worst is that these ineffiecient characters at the consulate think they have accomplished something in their life by being employed in the consu,ate. I gave up my Moroccan nationality < at least for now, so I do not have to deal with them any where in the world. By the way I love my country of origin, and my the remaining of my Moroccan family.
11/09/10

Amanda Mouttaki said:

Responses
Thank you all for your comments. We hoped to obtain my son's citizenship purely to have the option there for him as he came of age. I am raising my children to respect and be proud of both their American and Moroccan heritage. My husband and I would also like to have our marriage recognized in Morocco so that things are easier when we travel there. As I am not a Moroccan citizen, we are not as "believable" as a married couple. We also would like the ability to possibly move there at some point. Perhaps it's just the "rule of law" sense that I have, in which I hoped we could complete all the paperwork to have status in the US and Morocco.

We have tried to complete paperwork 3 times in the US (in DC and NYC consuls) and also once in Morocco. Having invested several hundred dollars into translations, bribes and "fees" in which nothing was ever returned. While this may be called "bureaucracy" it's completely ineffectual. The rules constantly change based on the whim of the consular in the US. (We also tried to register in DC with 2 men that were present there being our witnesses, we were told it wasn't allowed as they didn't actually know us and couldn't attest to whether we had a valid marriage.) I hate to say it but at this point it feels to me more like Morocco has no desire to recognize the marriage of an American to a Moroccan citizen and less about whether we have this paper or that paper.

11/08/10

SiMohammedNY said:

i can't believe what i see here!!
I really couldn't believe my eyes when I read some comments on Amanda's experience. You guys (I mean those born in Morocco and moved to the U.S) sound like you were in Tazmamart before you fled to the U.S!! How can you be so alienated from your roots and hating where you are from?! even trying to pretend you are not Moroccan!!?! Syrian?!! are you kidding me?! Moving to Spain to have a daughter?! Every single human being I have met in this country is proud of his/her background and even celebrating it in the annual parades and sharing beautiful stories about it with friends and strangers! Except you guys! What are you going to teach your kids? How are you going to raise them? Purely American? What is American? Last time I checked there was no such thing as American identity! But there is Moroccan identity! To those who are ashamed of being Moroccan, I would simply tell you look at some Moroccans born and raised in Europe - they are lost, confused and have no clue who they really are! Why? Because their parents failed to explain them that it is fine to be French/Dutch/whatever, but it is also fine to feel proud of having a background that is Moroccan, Muslim, etc.

Amanda - it is called bureaucracy - same crap here in the U.S, just things are a little faster because the U.S is the "richest country in the world" or at least we would like to think so. I work for the U.S government and i can tell you that things can be a lot faster, but again bureaucracy make them slower - for U.S standards!

I have a 6 months old son (my first) and despite having to navigate the labyrinth of the Moroccan bureaucracy, he now has al-hala al madaniya and i will apply for a Moroccan Id for him as soon as he is eligible. I don't care how much we hate the Moroccan bureaucracy (which is called bureaucracy EVERYWHERE), i am a proud Moroccan and i will do my best to raise my son as an American but a proud Moroccan.

Last week, i was in the airport and i saw this Moroccan couple in line for check in; they were speaking to their daughter in French and English, but noooo Arabic - i tried for almost 15 minutes to overhear one word in Arabic directed to the daughter, but nothing - nada! I rest my case - no comment on such a sad state of Moroccan identity!
11/08/10

Abdellah NICET said:

...
Amanda,
First let me command you for all the efforts you have made to get your son registred in HalEL MADANIA, and also let me add, don't give-up on it. regardless of the comments I' ve read above, think about your son becoming an adult and while he will be going through the process of building his own personality and sense of belonging which usually starts to get reflected from the roots of the parents ... what will be your answer as parents to him if you didn't pass-on at least the formal paperwork wich is the icing on the cake, and I m sure you know the cultural heritage is the main cake itself.
Just to let you know, I m in the same situation as your husband's cause my son was born here, but fortunatly I had the Bookelet of hala Madania made while I was in Morocco. it took 4 days to register him with the consulat through the mail( mailed his birth certificate and Bookelet of halamdaniaand I even received them On SUNDAY. yes on Sunday. and our mail man doesn't deliver mail on sundays, post office had a special delievry for it.
I hope that PEOPLE WORKING in Consulat learn just a litle bit from this country and get things done knowing that people have to make arrangements just to get couple hours or couple days off, If they do ( learn ) made it known through their "chain of command"
" it takes one bad apple to make the whole batch look bad" I know there are some good people working and for that I want to Command you and thank you for the good work.
Thanks
11/08/10

morcelli said:

...
Apparently, I am not the only one happy for not register my kids with the Moroccans. Why would I do that? So that I can say I am proud Moroccan? what is a proud Moroccan will do for my kids?
As of now, Morocco is nice to visit with the family, taste the cuisine and perhaps take a small 2-3 day trip to Marrakesh or qal3at maggouna, other than that, Morocco only takes, takes, and takes and does nothing for us here and us there. We are just like the piggy bank of Morocco, whenever they need the money, they target the Moroccan immigrant.
If i were you, I will have some serious talk with the hubby and ask him to erase the idea of registering your child with the thieves. We all love Morocco and we love our roots but we hate the Moroccan thieves that are posted in every Moroccan bureau.

If a miracle happen and Morocco starts observing the rule of law, then maybe, i repeat maybe, we should consider registering our kids in the famous booklet.


Patriot, you are a mad man:) but i agree with your statement that those who want register their kids with a Moroccan moqata3a (municipality I think) in incomprehensible.





11/07/10

Madim said:

...
AMANDA , I BECAME A US CITIZEN AND YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW MUCH I AM PROUD. NOW JUST AS AN EXEMPLE OF MY DAUGHTER, SHE JUST CAME TO THE US WITH MY WIFE AFTER A LONG YEAR OF HASSEL TO GET THEM DONE WITH PAPER WORK AND NOW I AM FINE. BUT I HAD TO PAY MORE MONEY AND SPEND MORE TIME TO GET MY WIFE TO SPAIN TO HAVE OUR DAUGHTER BORN IN SPAIN RATHER MOROCCO, THIS WAY MY DAUGHTER NOW, SHE IS AN AMERICAN BORN IN SPAIN, AND THE TIME SHE GOES TO MOROCCO I WILL TEACH HER TO SAY THAT SHE IS A LIBANESE DESCENT AND BORN IN SPAIN, THIS WAY THEY WILL NEVER ASK HER ABOUT HER s****d MOROCCAN ID...NO WAY
11/07/10

mahmoud dehbi said:

waste of time
why do you need the book ? your son can go to morocco anytime he wish noone is gonna stop him by him have the moroccan nationallity is doing him no go i been waiting for my ID for four months now anf everytime i call there is some new law. when we dont have any law
11/07/10

M.Ali Bouanani said:

University Professor
Reading about Amanda's ordeal brought to my mind the one I lived during three months of the summer 2010! I, too, am without a valid ID and my Moroccan passport has expired on Oct. 14! I will write about my summer in "Lmoghreb" and my comings and goings between 3 cities by car, hot trains, taxis and even souk buses and got ziltch! Bravo to the Moroccan Administration! And they have the nerve to celebrate "La journee de l'immigration!"
11/06/10

Moroccan Patriot said:

Why do you want the Family book?
Your son is an American Citizen. There is absolutely no benefit to you nor to your son in having Moroccan citizenship. In fact, giving your son Moroccan citizenship only hurts him, as it could potentially open him up to being tortured in a Moroccan Prison one day. As an American citizen, the worst thing that would ever happen if he spoke out against the corrupt leadership of Morocco, would be to get deported; on the other hand, if he is considered a Moroccan citizen, the government of Morocco is then allowed to torture him to death and there is nothing you can do about it.

There is NO benefit of being a Moroccan citizen. Why anyone would waste their time and effort trying to get citizenship to a corrupt backwards nation like Morocco is beyond me.
11/06/10

Hamdi said:

...
AMANDA, YOU LIVE IN THE USA RIGHT? WELL IMAGINE YOU LIVE IM MOROCCO ???????
REMEMBER THIS WORD....ALWAYS USE IT " BACKCHISH " IN YOUR HAND BEFORE YOU DO ANY MOROCCAN ADMINISTRATIVE PAPER...GOOD LUCK
11/06/10

abdel baa said:

...
i'm sorry to hear that but i all ways get my document from consulat of NY with no probleme matter in fact i just did my new ID for all my familly it was smood it took us 1 hr to do all process for the familly and we have our new ID you may be you did not go to the right personne or some thing wrong some where .for instince i did send an e mail and they respond in 2 day i will suggest to start over by ending an E mail for the paper you need then go i can say that thinks change now i wish you good luck
11/06/10

Adam Nauhouse said:

Bureaucratic chaos
Amanda, The chaotic and frustrating Moroccan bureaucracy is completely intentional and it is a way of live in Morrocco as is bribery. If you don't like these facts, then don't move to Morocco!
11/06/10

moro yankee said:

don't worry be happy
why do you have to go all through that headache to get a family birth right book?i don't get it,do you live in morocco or the usa,your son was born in the usa right, ddadadadadadada, do the math, and stop with that bad image bull s#@!#@ about morocco, before you insult morocco , remember that your dear husband and your son are moroccans, this is s****d , i don't know why i'm waisting my energy over this.
11/05/10

Morcelli said:

Mrs Amanda,
or you can do like me and forget about it. What do you need this book for?
It' s just a useless booklet for the sole purpose is to invite bribery.

Couple of summers ago, i applied for the ID (Carte d'identite' Nationale) and three years have past and I have not received a thing.
Mind you the bank wants my ID instead of passport to open an account.
Do your son a favor, don't put him in the book.

11/05/10

man en blanc said:

Good luck, Amanda.
A member of my immediate family spent his entire adult life working as mkhazni or merda in different moukata3as throughout Casablanca. Needless to say he is throughly familiar with the absurd chaos called bureaucracy.

Few times, when I needed a particular paper, I would reach out to him. He would make the procedure amazingly smooth.

But when I would set out on my own to deal with the bureaucracy, my frustration would always almost lead me to be arrested. Mind-boggling doesn't even begin to describe our labyrinthine system!
And the system IS computerized now! Talk about waste of technology.

11/05/10

Ailani said:

Call the consul
Went through the same exact problem trying to get the family book done.
Call the consul between 12 and 1pm at 202-615-0699. His name is Kassimi. He is very helpful.
He was the one that posted his phone number on this website.
If you don't have two people to go with ( witnesses). it can be arranged for someones who will be there the day you go and have them used as witnesses.
Good Luck.
Once you get that done, the rest should be easier. Send the paperwork to Morocco where your husband was born. His father and a family member can take care of the rest and your family book can be ready in one day. Make sure you have your full birth certifcate translated before sending all your paperwork there.
11/05/10

Write comment

busy