| Algeria: Independent Republic of Kabylia |
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 According to the Algerian Daily, Mr. Ferhat Mehenni, the leader of the AUTONOMISTE KABYLE MOVEMENT (MAK) , a separatist movement has been secretly bank rolled by the Israelis and surreptitiously manipulated by the Moroccan government in its endeavor to achieve self-determination and independence for the Kabylie people in Algeria.
Once again, the Algerian daily Ennahar is stirring up trouble and planting the seeds of hatred, Racism and disunity among the peoples of North Africa. In its edition of 06/17/2009, Ennahar < http://www.ennaharonline.com/en/news/1461.html > published a half baked and purposely confusing article regarding a presumed Israeli-Moroccan conspiracy to support a soon to be declared Independent Republic of Kabylia some where in the Kabylie region that engulfs several Wilayas in Algeria.
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mazagan
said:
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hile MoroccoBoard.com encourages discussion on all subjects, including sensitive ones, the comments posted are solely the views of those submitting them. MoroccoBoard.com does not necessarily endorse or agree with the ideas, views, or opinions voiced in these comments. This is a moderated forum. Comments deemed abusive, offensive, or those containing profanity may not be published.
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Get to know Algeria Krimo, I for one would love to visit Algeria. I dream of visiting the legendary Kasbah in Algiers (seen the movie at least 10 times) and the majestic Hoggar, the M'zaab,etc. I read in some Tunisian blogs that the safety has improved but the touristic infrastructure (adequate and frequent accommodations, restaurants, tours, excursions, information, and marketing) is still work in progress. In General, Moroccans do need to be more educated about Algeria, except for the 10% of the folks that live in the Oriental, our neighbor to the East remains a mystery for most. As people and cultures, we will have to make an effort to get to know and appreciate each other and unfortunately, the border closing does not help. I have a question for you regarding the 500’000 visitors, where did you get this figure? I am in the travel business; it would require approximately 40 round trip flights a week operating at full capacity every week of the year to manage this volume. I don’t know how many scheduled flights are out there, my guess between 5 and 20 a week according to seasonality, which translates into 150’000 passengers give or take. And by any means, please correct me if I am wrong. Regards |
Krimo
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Algeria does not need Morocco The fact that Morocco is begging Algeria to open its borders speaks volumes about the relationship between the two countries. The fact is that most Algerians want the borders to stay closed while allowing flights between the two countries for the real tourists. In 2007, more than half a million Algerians spent their vacation and hard earned money in Morocco. Guess how many Moroccans returned the favor? My simple question to all those Moroccans who are begging Algeria to open its borders, what's in it for Algeria? |
Din
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... From when the Annahar newspaper is an official spokesman of the Algerian government? I can give you a list of more than 50 Algerian newspapers and you can check out how different are , from one to another one.I don't think there is a same in Morocco , except TEL QUEL , en plus .. It's not for everybody ... :)) Friendly ~Din |
Hmimarmad
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... Djamel, You said that Algeria is changing I beg to disagree. We would love to see Algeria changing, but your generals and Mouteflika don't seem to change on trying to screw up Morocco, they did not change being the obstacle to peace in North Africa, their appetite for weapons has not changed, their media lies has not changed, their supreme hate for Morocco has not change, their making Morocco the devil next door has not changed. Changing is not building big buildings. When the above stops, then we can say that Algeria changed or is changing because Morocco is asking for peace, asking for open borders, asking to work out our differences, to not get involve in the Sahara, the king of Morocco drove and walked in the street of Algiers to show our good intentions in return Mouteflika stabbed him the back by visiting your polisario rubbish dictator right after. If you have common sense you will realize that we tried and we tried but nothing works. We do know one thing and you should know it too. Morocco in the sahara and in the sahara it will stay, any other option will be the end of Morocco, We know that is what your generals are hoping for, the problem is that it ain't going to happen. We are not suicidaires? If i were an Algerian defending the generals, I would be ashamed, there is nothing to defend, I would defend the Algerian people instead, The Majority of Algerians don't give a rat's ass about the Sahara, so why are you and your friend not so freedom are insisting on defending the undefended? Peace! |
Djamel
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To Hmimarmad Hmimarmad, Please, don't twist my words and try to make me look like an unreasonable man. What I said is, don't talk about a country at great lengths and pretend to know anything worth knowing about it, unless you've actually taken the trouble of at least discovering it for yourself. Even though I have visited Morocco, you don't see me describing how the Moroccans live, let alone how they think, because I reckon that a few days in a country hardly paint a good picture of how it feels to be part of it. The truth is that Algeria is changing at a very fast pace, and is following in the footsteps of ex-communist countries like China. First we take care of the infrastructure which we're doing at an unbelievable rate, then we let the new generation take care of the rest. It is just a matter of a few years before Algeria starts reaping dividends. |
Boras
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Wake up Algerians it's 2009 not 1979 Salaam All, I find it astounding that some of our Algerian brothers still support their mafia generals and their constant plotting and planning against Morocco. And when they are confronted all they can say is Basri this Basri that. Don't they realise Basri was removed a long time ago! So many algerians are still living in the past no doubt the media there are content with constantly portraying us as the enemy so they can arm themselves to the teeth. Well I wouldn't be surprised if those same very weapons are used against their own people like they were in the 90's. It's sad to see algeria continue along this path of confrontation and aggression against Morocco. I've said this before and I will say it again the best thing for algeria is for the military junta to be removed from power in algeria. Only when that happens can the Maghreb region progress forward. |
Hmimarmad
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... Ok ms not so freedom, I thought you said that was your last post but if you insist on staying then cool. You said you never mentioned basri, then let me ask you, tell us why you think of lbasri, according to your compatriot he said" the Moroccan government has lot to answer for in what it did and probably still does to destabilize Algeria" Again, there are other forums where you can feel very welcome, it's questionable why you are here knowing that any hate you try to spread will not be embraced. Ok we got it, you're one of those who try to get their kick out of pissing other people off by spreading hate and lies, good try but it won't work. Lastly Long live the people of Algeria the decent one that i was fortunate to meet, the one that do not see why Algeria is in the business of screwing Morocco for decades, and hell with the generals and mouteflika. Morocco screwed up too and we will not deny it, The basri that your buddy Djamael idolize is the one who fabricated that the algerian secret service were behind the bombing in Marrakesh in 1994. We are in 21st century now, all we are asking the midget now is let the UN deal with the Sahara and let's start a new page,instead the midget in insisting on the sahara and people like you seem to support the midget so don't expect us to be your brother and sister, you meet the evil doer with force. |
Hmimarmad
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... Of folks, according to Mr Djamel, you should not talk about Algeria unless you set in foot in it first. He said he visited Morocco then he has every right to spread his hate. I have news for you Mr Djamel, this is not not mouteflika's territory to tell people not to talk about Algeria unless you pay a visit first. Sorry but as long as Algerian generals are roaming, the likelihood of anyone visiting Algeria is pretty slim. besides, the truth is that it is pretty depressing, why would anyone go there when the generals are controlling every inch of the country, the only thing they could not control is their terrorists. Your Generals are not doing any good to the people of algeria, things has and will change in there, I just hope sooner than later, I also hope that people like you are the minority in Algeria, otherwise, Algeria is in deep hole. Lastly when you mentioned Driss lbasri as you knowledgeable source after he was kicked out of Morocco for his evil doing, then I have nothing to say but you chose to live in the past as your Mouteflika, that's your choice. Best of luck. |
Djamel
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To Hmimarmad Hmimarmad, I don't a need a lecture on who Driss Basri was or what he did to his fellow citizens, all that interests me is what he said about the Moroccan government's involvement in Algeria's terrorism. Whether you like it or not, the guy was Morocco's number two for over twenty years, so forgive me if I'd rather believe him than a nobody. I don't know how to break this to you gently, but when you accuse those you don't know of being stuck in the past, at least try to pretend to be part of the present by not chewing on the same old subject again and again. When Freedom said "If the territorial integrity is so dear to Morocco, maybe it should try to liberate Septa and Melila islands first", your response was in the lines of "Spain is stronger than us and is backed by Europe", well isn't that the definition of a bully who only gets his way with the weak and vulnerable? Lastly, do me a favour a stop talking about Algeria since you never set foot in it. I have been to Morocco on the other hand and although what I've seen beggars belief I choose not to say anything just out of respect for those who deserve it. |
A sakkaki
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... ..Wake up Algeria! you have been used for a long time..get rid of your corrupt government..we are here to support you.. My support to get rid of that S.B Boutaflika Abderrahmaner |
Freedom
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Hmimamrmad I had decided not to answer this post, but i had to answer Mr Hmimamrmad insults. First, i rather be playing the cool polite card rather than be playing the ignorant imb... card, which you are playing well. Second, i had never mentioned Idriss Albasri in my messages, and the fact that you want me to go to the grave is just sad. One final note, I do know your kind of people who like to talk big when they are sitting behind their computer screen, but in real life they are not courageous ( referring to Mr.Hmimamrmad). |
Hmimarmad
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... Freedom, You said this is your last post, I said good riddance. Find yourself an Algerian forum to spread your hate for Morocco. You are telling us that www.liberte-algerie.com is good news media, I am telling you that it is pure garbage government propaganda machine. When you rely on www.liberte-algerie.com to get your news from this rubbish and others like you rely on Driss Basri for advice, this certainly tell us your level of knowledge about the issues. Now you can follow Driss lbasri to the grave, I am sure he'll be happy to see some of you certainly in Hell after butchering so many people. My advice to those who idolize someone like lbasri, i said, now he's dead, you have Ahmanidinajad, chavez, and Mugabe. Playing the cool polite card does not work here. TSAB!!!!!!!!!! |
Freedom
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To Hmimamrmad Dear sir, The fact that you are calling me "the evil doers Algerian recruits" attest to the level of your sophistication i am afraid. Name calling or propaganda spreading is not going to help your cause of prove you case, to the contrary, it only shows me that i am dealing with an immature person who can not hold his own on a serious debate so he has to use empty slogans. I did try in several occasions to engage you guys in a serious debate using facts and only facts, but what did i get in return? Anyway, i wish you guys good luck in your endeavors. Since its my last message on this subject, let me add few points. First, the fact that some Moroccan brother are trying to use the threat of supporting the MAK or the Touarg republic arguments does not scare us as Algerians, we have seen worst, so i have one word for these guys " BRING IT ON". we gave a million and half martyrs to liberate our country from the French and we are still giving even more up to this day. Second, France made us pay for every inch we got back, so whoever is having some wet dreams about getting some parts of Algeria can put his dreams to rest. Finally, making fun of our elections does not really make you guys look good ( You know, if your house is made of glass you should not throw rocks at other peoples houses )call it whatever you want but we did have 4 presidents in 18 years, just give me the name of another Arabic country who can claim the same. Yes, we are not perfect and neither are our leaders but at least you can see progress, Just pick up any Algerian newspaper and you will see how critical they are of our government (www.liberte-algerie.com).Yes, Bouteflika won, even if i do not agree with all his policies but you have to be fair to him. Economy is in much better condition, almost zero debt and over 150 billion US dollars or reserve currency, Big investments in the infrastructures, Re-modernization of the Algerian army who was under western embargo during the 90's, ....ETC. Best regards, |
Hmimarmad
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... Djamel, You just like government rely on what Driss Basri has said or Not. Driss Basri was the butcher of Morocco and the most hated evil we have ever had and was fired after 3 months in the new Era. This tells you that we no longer want people like Basris, Algeria instead wants to stay in the past and kept their "basris" and they will remain there and dragging their people even lower thinking they are dragging us. We are passed living in the past, you may have more oil but look at the disastrous life the Algerian people live, aren't your young people still trying to cross an ocean for a better life? Algerians like you need to wake up and fight for a change for a better life for All Algeria, don't let the old hawks ruin the life of the Algerian even further. In Morocco, we are no better than no one we have our multiple flaws and we have many issues to take care of but at least we want to be good neighbor and a better country. We no longer want to be stuck in the past as your Generals. The Sahara is not your problem, tell your dictator let the UN deal with it, of course they will not because that's the excuse they have for the Algerian people. Shame on your generals and your dictator mouteflika supporting Spain during the issue we had with them. Traitors!!! Moroccans will never support anyone who wants to harm Algeria. |
A sakkaki
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... As all of us know that the current Algerian government is illegitimate and so is the whole system..We are here to help our brothers the Algerians to change the regime because it serves only a small interest group..Boutaflika and his gang should be tried in court for elections frauds and money laundering..A bunch of criminals are running the country. You have all our support, our brothers the Algerians and equally the Berbers..I think UN nation should take Kabylia issue very seriously..Kbayals are the original natives and should not be marginalized..I think we should annex those wellayates to be part of Morocco..We will take care of our brothers, and I think they will fit perfectly in our system..Algeria is doomed to fall sooner or later; the government is rotten to the root..It's about the time we change what's going on in Algeria and reach out to our brothers and save them from this evil..Algeria is rich but its people are poor: it does not make any sense..Deja vu; another Saddam Hussein..this time a bunch of them..My brothers the Algerians, don't be afraid ; you should rise against evil..Don't wait too long; you have been waiting for a long time. Only Boutaflika and his gang are getting richer and richer, while the rest of the country is getting poorer and poorer..Supporting you in hard times is not something new to Morocco..We already stood up against France and helped you guys to have your independence..But a criminal like Boutaflika has no morals or values to cherish, appreciate or acknowledge our sacrifice.. My support, Abderrahmane Sakkaki |
El Younsi Mohamed
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To Freedom 6/22/09 Hi there Mr. Hmimou, First, I salute you Mr. Freedom! I am not sure from where you are seeking freedom, but I leave it there; just joking! No, seriously, I have to confess to you, I laughed so hard when you mentioned “Joe”, thank you! Now you are talking not only my language, but Mrs. Palin’s as well, I like that! You are right my friend, I am a simple Joe the six- pack, and I like Heineken too! I wish if I have the power to decide what’s good for us as a unified Maghreb region! However, I do believe that king MVI, is aware of this responsibility, and he is really trying to do something about it; unfortunately the government of Algeria does not share the same vision! It seems like this government is dwelling on the past, which is nothing but that! Anyway, since we are just Joe the plumber and Joe the six- pack, we don’t have the power to decide do we? For this very reason my friend Freedom, we all (you, I, and all of us) need to rethink our strategy, and we need to really reassess what’s in it for us based on the current political landscape of this very fragile world! You and I and all of our brothers who are involved in this debate on both sides, need to reshape our debate, and need to talk peace. We need to promote peace between us instead! We have too much to win if we do, and too much to lose if we don’t! I believe our responsibility as intellects is to talk unity and peace between us. This will help us waking up; If you look up other nations, you won’t deny the fact they are going fast in building their countries, their infrastructure, improving their economies, creating job opportunities, and competing with the rest of the world! I am not sure our respective governments are doing the same! I say this because of what is happening in our countries today! We have unemployment, illiteracy, bad infrastructure, corruption, lack of justice, lack of love to our countries, low level of education; we lost so many valuable young people who tried to cross over to Europe, why? The tragedy is still ongoing; shouldn’t our government feel ashamed of themselves? How many years passed since our independence, what did our governments do for us? I know there is lots of bla bla bla bla coming out of their mics , but believe me, you know it as I do, there is nothing there beside the fan fare! Their argument is void, and empty! The world knows our case inside out! In fact the world knows more about us, than what we know about ourselves! We need to wake up, our governments are trying to promote war and destruction instead, knowing that both of these things belong to the past! What a shame! As you have seen, all of my brothers who commented on your comment, they all supported the unity of Algeria, none agreed on the division of our neighboring Algeria! We all love our brothers and sisters in Algeria, and if we make comments, we make'm out of our love and hope to seeing our region grow and develop! When you read brothers Hmimarmad's comment for instance, you found in him love and pride of the win over Egypt and Zambia, that’s something extremely important! It made me so happy to see our brothers behave in such a manner, sharing the joys with their brother Algerians no matter what the problem is! This feeling has been also demonstrated by Iberkak, Slawi , and I am sure every person in Morocco! I wish if our political leaders and our governments take another look at their plans and their politics for the good of our people and our region! War is not good, is a lose- lose situation! This is not between people , it is instead a political issue between the two governments. Keep talking to each other in peace, and sharing with each views and opinion in a total freedom and honesty, makes a difference. Just look what happened between us here on this forum, once we broke the ice, thanks to you, the attitude did change completely between us, don’t you think? It did for me. Thanks again I enjoy conversing with you this time Mr. Hmimou, thank you |
mazagan
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Divided we are falling behind To my Algerian brothers and sisters; -Do you sincerely believe that there is a Sahrawi nation of 100’000 folks deprived of nationhood? -Do you think it is fair and normal that present Algeria because of colonial anomaly extends all the way to Tamansaret? -Algeria and Libya got each nice undeserved chunk of that terra nullius thanks to the colonial masters. You don’t think Morocco or Tunisia should have a little portion of it? -Why in the case of the Sahara are some Algerian folks adopting the “raison d’Etat et folie de grandeur” of their government? -If the government of Algeria was truly so principled, why haven’t they started the liberation war against the Spanish occupier? Or they just enjoy antagonizing their alter ego Morocco. -We know that the Algerian people as a whole don’t give a jack about the plight of the Sahrawis as human beings. The main official message is “liberating” the Sahara from Morocco. Now they may have to worry about liberating Tindouf from the Sahrawis, or naturalize them and let them roam in a bigger Sahara. A great Algerian thinker did point to the Algerian psyche in need of a constant scare crow and that role is traditionally filled by France or Morocco depending of the wind of the moment. Hopefully one day, we’ll be able to shake these political and psychological barriers. As of today as countries we’re still behaving in very indigenous manner to the joyous pleasure of our overlords. I respect and admire my Algerian brothers and sisters and I wish they see the light, quit being “la voix de son maitre”, drop the Sahara issue and stop resenting and hindering Morocco. - |
Djamel
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To Hmimamrmad Hmimamrmad said: "It 's hard to believe the level of hate that the Algerian Government reserves for Morocco. Morocco can only do one thing: KILL THEM WITH KINDNESS." According to Driss Basri, the Moroccan government has a lot to answer for in what it did and probably still does to destabilize Algeria, and that my friend is straight from the horse's mouth. You're free of course to believe in whatever makes you happy. |
Hmimarmad
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... To the evil doers Algerian recruits, The Sahara is in Morocco and in Morocco, it will stay. You had 33 years to demoralize and shake our will but you couldn't, we will give you another 200 years if need be. if you take the Sahara, then come on in and get Rabat and Casablanca, make us you slaves and imprison us for another 33 years in your desert. The evil doers can no longer do us harm, they will only harm their own. For the evil doers calling us their brothers and sisters, we are not your brothers and sisters when you want us harmed. We rather embrace the state of Israel instead. Israel never want us harmed like our so called neighbors. |
Slawi
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Algeria & Morocco should work together and back each other I believe the Algerian Government is taking the wrong path in supporting a separative movement like POLISARIO. What's the point in creating a new weak state at the border of Morocco, a state who will be anyway dominated and controled by a regional power. I don't think that the arab and muslim world need to be more fragmented more than he'is now, I think that the arab and muslim world should unite their efforts to fight diseases & corruption moreover unite to develop their own countries and bring joy and happiness to their own citizens. The Western Sahara is Moroccan since the early times, the National Army of Liberation was at the doors of the Sahara in the early 1957 willing to liberate the occupied territories, but unfortunately HassanII had other priorities and dismanteled the N.A.L and it was a big mistake made by the late king. The Western Sahara has been and still a popular morrocan issue unlike the Algerian Government run by a bunch of corrupted generals who are using the Western Sahara as a milking cow (10% theory) by engaging the region in an arms race which benefit the cannons vendors and impoverish the Moroccan and Algerian populations. In respect to the Independant Republic of Kabylia, I don't think it's a good idea and the reason is this could be a precedent that will put the fire in the straw, remember that we in Morocco we're not immune from such tendancy and we have people who are ready to jump in the banwagon to create a Republic of Souss, Republic of Rif, Republic of Zayan....what else?...it's very dangerous path that will just bring a bloody destruction and sorrow like we're seeing now in some places like Irak and Afghanistan. Thank you for reading my comment. Slawi |
Hmimarmad
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... Mr freedom, Your President just got elected for life after changing the constitution, he also got a ridiculous over 90% of the votes. Only God can get more than 90% if you believe in one. Come back and lecture us on WS when your generals and your dictator unclench their fist from choking the Algerian people. I mean it in a good way, When Algeria gets better, Morocco will get better and so will Tunisia and Mauritania and Egypt and the entire Arab world for that matter will get infected with the democracy virus. Right now your president does not give you any room to debate what belongs to who. You sound like an intelligent person but I really don't see how you allow yourself to look the other way when you have much at stake in your own backyard. Start fixing your house and then you are welcome to come help us to fix ours. It 's not all that bad after all because i do agree that we should bring back Zaki and enough of the foreigners running our destiny. Mr Saadane is doing a great job. Again, good luck to the Proud Algerian National Soccer Team. |
Algerian Lady
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... Salam brothers and sisters, I agree with my brother Freedom in his statements of the historical facts regarding the WS issue. Now I wonder why you, our Morrocan brothers, are treating him is such an aweful way; he did nothing but tell his opinion in a very respectful & courteous way, why don't you do the same? & PLEASE don't even try to call me recruit because I'm NOT; we here enjoy Democracy thank Allah and we can say whetever we want^^ Need evidence? Look at our newspapers & you'll see that we criticise our governement more than any other entity. An Algerian Lady Algeria |
iberkak
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Silence is golden when you can’t think of a good answer To Algerian Freedom: Morocco got back its Sahara by hard and long negotiations that ended with Madrid Accords. Spain did not leave but was pressured to leave. Morocco was asking for the Sahara since 1958 (Check UN archives) not just after 1975 as you claim or your government made you believe. As a matter of fact, your late President Boumediene was present in an Arab League conference in early 70's when Late King Hassan II asked the support of the Arab states for the return of the Sahara to Morocco. They had voiced support and no Arab country objected including yours. I can assure you that you will not come up with one real proof that your Algeria was supporting Polisario before the return of the Sahara to Morocco. Why is it that Algeria is the only Muslim country that is supporting, harboring and arming a separatist movement against Morocco? Are they all wrong? Libya used to be a supporter too but gave up. Can't Algeria just be neurtal? Morocco never wanted a war with Algeria. The generals are totally foolish if they think Moroccans will give up the Sahara. Algerians, like you, should thank the French for making your country so large and be happy that you have peaceful neighbors. (Sahara in Algeria is more than 4 times bigger than in Morocco including WS) I do not support any separation of Kabylia or Toureg from Algeria, however, if the war resumes between Morocco and Polisario, and Algeria takes hostages and POW in its land as it did before, things will be different... |
Freedom
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... Dear Hmimarmad, Did i hit a raw nerve? why are you being so disrespectful? by the way its Mr not Ms. As for the Baker plan, i do know that my government as well as the POLISARIO accepted the second and final Baker plan which was rejected by the Moroccan side. As for you accusing me of spreading hate in your board, i see no basis for your claim, I am just trying to have a normal and a honest debate with my Moroccan brothers. Thank you for your congratulations over the win over Zambia, as for me i was really saddened by your game with Togo, and i really think Morocco deserves a better team and specially a better coach, you guys need Bado Zaki back. PS: As for your question Mr Elyounsi "If you are Algerian why you are so interested in talking about the Sahara issue?" Since the issue of the WS did poison the relation between our two countries for the past 34 years, i thought it was time to start a frank discussion between the two people, and why not start from the regular Joe's like you and I. Regards, |
El Younsi Mohamed
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Regards to you too Mr. Hmimou! They chopped 90% of my comments, knowing that I have not say any thing insulting at all! Anyway, I will only say this: You got it all wrong again Mr. Hmimou! You mixed apples and oranges for saying absolutely nothing! With all my due respect, the referendum suggested by Morocco in Nairobi, 1981 is documented, the sand's war is also well documented, the Spanish census is well preserved, the five criteria for voting eligibility established by S.G of the UN Mr. De cuellar are all known to the world. Morocco rejects referendum today, because your friends "algerosario" rejected criterion2! These issues are big and need to more time, and space. If you are Algerian why you are so interested in talking about the Sahara issue? Look Mr. Hmimou, things are totally different now! By the way I am not turning this forum to any thing at all; I like to debate in an honest way, and based on facts! Regards to you too. |
Hmimarmad
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... Ms Algerian Freedom, You said: The dilemma here is that Morocco wanted the SETTLERS that were implemented in WS after ( elmasira elkhadraa)to be part of the referendum, which of course did not make sense. Your ignorance about the subject does not do you any good, just like your sad and pathetic Government , do you know that your Government did accept the Baker plan, meaning that what you call the settlers would also vote? it is make sense to your Government. Simply Google Baker Plan, read, and learn. Next time you have something to say, you don't need to brown nose Moroccoboard to get your hate posted ie:(to turn this respectful forum....), after all we do love our Algerian brothers and sisters and no brown nosing is needed but do inform yourself so that you don't embarrass your patriots. Last but not least, I want congratulate the people of Algeria on their team win against Zambia, I am sure that the Algerians players will represent the Maghreb the best they could as they did in the past , we will be watching you in SA, Hopefully Tunisia will do the same, As for the Moroccan team, sadly, they will also be watching you on TV and hopefully learn that you don't qualify to the World cup by losing at and tying at home. Have a nice day |
Freedom
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TO El Younsi Mohamed Dear Friend, I am not sure why you are trying to turn this respectful forum to a shouting match:) All what i did is stating some facts. Ok let's start the lesson, pay attention and if you have a question raise your hand. First, lets get something straight, The sand war was in 1962 not 60 and to refresh your memory, it started after the troops of its majesty attacked Algerian border towns thinking that the ALN was weakened by France. Second, up till the death of Franco the WS was under spanish control and only after Spain announced it was withdrawing its troops from WS that Morocco remembered it had a southern provence. The interesting part of the story is that even though Morocco considered WS part of Morocco it had no problem sharing it with Mauritania. So the question is why Morocco was willing to give half the WS to Mauritania if it did consider WS an integral part of Morocco. Second, Morocco did agree to hold a referendum to determine If the Native people of the Western Sahara ( the ones identified under the Spanish census of 1974 and their dependents) wanted their independence or not. The dilemma here is that Morocco wanted the SETTLERS that were implemented in WS after ( elmasira elkhadraa)to be part of the referendum, which of course did not make sense. Third, As a result of that, Morocco rejected the UN plan ( Baker plan)and the only thing Morocco is giving is an Indian reservation Status. Finally, Morocco have to options. First, start another war. Second, hold a fair referendum. If i were Morocco, i would not start another war knowing the result of the last one. As for myself, i am not a recruit:) i just like to state the obvious, and yes i am Algerian. Best regards, |
El Younsi Mohamed
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To Hmimou No, it is completely not the same! Here you go again Mr. Hmimou, Freedom, Khalid, |
mohamed23
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Morocco Morocco have to support kabylie independance like this illigitime algerian gov suppoting this groupe terroriste called them self poliszero also have recognise it and recognise republique touerg and supporting Front islamique of salvation who won election in 1992 |
Hmimou
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... Nothing new, this is the same as for the Riff to morocco Riff was an independant state from 1921 - 1926, then on 1962- 63 if i remember the Riff was hit by an F16 from king hassan, and till now Riff and it's people do not see themselves as moroccans at all |
El Younsi Mohamed
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To Freedom! As recruit, you don't even have the guts to name yourself! Only in rare occasion where I debate recruits like you; especially when they have nothing to say! Listen you “RECRUIT”, the article was about the Algerian media and its obsession with the people of Morocco; you haven’t said a thing that makes sense in that regard! What really forced me to drop you this line is the word “settlers” which you purposely used to deflect the attention and to identify the Sahrawi people in southern provinces with real settlers in Palestine! While this is just garbage, it does reflect on your commitment to serving your master! Like I said, you are nothing but a recruit, you could be either from south of Algeria, Mali, Mauritania, or from anywhere else in the planet! This is not something unheard of, Al Qaida is doing the same thing; it is recruiting people from everywhere in the world! So, enjoy your pay check for the nonsense bla bla bla bal! Since you are a simple recruit, you don’t have the guts to talk about the real issue! Your concern is not about defending the interest of the innocent Sahrawi refugees; it is instead to covering up the crime committed by your masters! These brave Sahrawi refugees are being humiliated, tortured, enslaved and the worse of all, are being sexually exploited, and cowardly raped by the Algerian military! Why don’t have the guts to denounce your masters? Look, whether you LOL, or ROFL, the truth is the Sahara issue is completely different now, and you are dealing with new realities concerning this artificial conflict! I don’t have much to tell you, except for letting you know that recruits like you, or the entire organization of mercenaries have no rights to talk about the Sahrawi people! You go back to Yemen, Mali, Mauritania, or stay in south of Algeria, the Sahara is in its Morocco and Morocco is its Sahara; we are all Sahrawis! |
Hmimarmard
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... Freedom, I will start with you last statement "NB: If the territorial integrity is so dear to Morocco, maybe it should try to liberate Septa and Melila islands first." The simple answer is that you cannot compare Spain backed the entire European Union and even the US to Morocco. It is a mediocre comparison. It's like saying what can't Mexico take back Texas and Arizona. Morocco will have to get its tow cities by peaceful means and it will sooner or later. You also said that "WS was never part of Morocco and last time i checked it was Under Spanish control up to 1975 " Well Algeria was under french control until 1960, does this mean that Algeria is a french territory? The same thing Algeria kicked the French out of Algeria, Algeria should accept that Morocco kicked Spain out of its southern territory. I feel sad that your government supported Spain in 2004 when we have the leila island issue. I would never support my country to destroy Algeria, and I know Algerian will never support that Morocco loses to the Spaniards, the Algerian Government does just that, he supported Spain. Very hateful on their part. God Bless the people of Algeria. |
El Younsi Mohamed
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Two wrongs do not make it right! Brother Masiky, it is nasty! What Algeria is doing to the people of Morocco, is totally wrong, but if we match their action, we will also be wrong! Thus, two wrongs do not make it right my friend! Indeed, the Algerian authority and almost its entire media apparatus have been actively engaged in promoting hate against the people of Morocco; but this is nothing new, this has been going on for decades! Hostility and negative attitude against Morocco constitute the corner stone of Algeria’s politics and diplomacy, as it has been for almost half a century! The question, however, is whether or not Morocco should counter-attack using the same dubious tactics, and engage in the same stupid politics? As Moroccan, my answer is no! Morocco, is a mature and peaceful nation, and should continue dealing with its rude neighboring Algeria based on these standards. Morocco is internationally recognized for promoting peace and friendship with, and between other nations; let’s not compromise this valuable recognition! In fact, there is thousand and one reason for Morocco to consider Algeria as an enemy! Here is why! Without talking about the 1960 sand’s war; the Algerian authority, with no shame and in a complete coward spirit brutally and savagely deported thousands of innocent Moroccan families out of Algeria early 1970! That coward action took place during a great Muslim sacrifice holiday of “Id Al Adha”! Their belongings were illegally confiscated. The Algerian hostile politics culminated with the fabrication of the Sahara conflict! Its hypocritical position regarding the Leila incident with our neighboring Spain revealed its real face, and the list goes on! The Sahara conflict has been, still is, and it will continue to be its high priority reason for its hostility against us! By the way, I would like to take this opportunity to strongly denounce the action taken by the Moroccan police force against Algerian nationals after the 1994 bombing of the hotel in Marrakech! Yeh, I know it is out of the scope, but I have to say it for fairness and for the balance of my argument! In the overall, I do not wish my country to support the division of Algeria, or to promote any kind of regional conflicts! I don’t want my country to take revenge, or to engage in hostile politics against Algeria; two wrongs do not make it right! What goes inside Algeria stays between Algerians! The Algerian stand on the Moroccan Sahara is completely wrong, and highly hypocritical, but that should not justify our intransigence in the Algerian national affaire! Morocco is a mature country, and therefore should stay neutral. Algeria is not only our neighbor, but also our two peoples share so many things. They were once one people! Within this perspective, I would like to conclude by saying: the issue of supporting the independence or the secession of one, or more regions in this country, is not our business! If our country engages in some sort of revenge against Algeria, it will certainly cause problems for the government of Algeria, but at the same time it will compromise the interest of the people of Algeria! This will simply be unwise, uncalled for, immature, and against Morocco’s own principals as well! Yes, some would enthusiastically prefer to see Morocco following the footsteps of the government of Algeria, like the old ditty say: “you do that to me, I do this to you”! No, that is not how we can promote peace and prosperity in our Maghreb region; two wrongs do not make it right! Such an action might seem justified due to current circumstances between the two countries, but it will not be a smart one either! The baby is yet to be born! Once that happens, Morocco will then have the opportunity like the rest of the world to weigh its options, and decides its stand as it sees fit! Thank you |
Hmimamrmad
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... It 's hard to believe the level of hate that the Algerian Government reserves for Morocco. Morocco can only do one thing: KILL THEM WITH KINDNESS. |
Freedom
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:) Dear Sir/Madam, I couldn't help but to notice that you kept referring to Annahar as if it represented the Algerian government , Last time i checked Annahar was not an official spokesman of the Algerian government. First, the Western Sahara Problem is not an Algerian Problem, its the United nation problem, and if you guys have a problem you can complain to the SC. Second, WS was never part of Morocco and last time i checked it was Under Spanish control up to 1975 and after along and painful war ( for both sides) it was agreed by both parts to hold a referendum to determine whether WS should be part of Morocco or an independent entity.iN OTHER WORDS, Morocco agreed to either give WS its independence or annex it if the native people wants that ( not the moroccan settlers}. Third, after having agreed to hold a referendum Morocco has changed its story and now it wants only to give the WS the status of an Indian Reservation. Fourth, as for the Kabylie question, the berber people were and will always be and integral part of the Algerian identity and what MAK or any other organization claim is a nonsense. Algerians payed dearly for every inch of their land, and i dont think they are ready to give it up yet. The MAK and the others can take the same route the HARKA took, i wish them good luck. NB: If the territorial integrity is so dear to Morocco, maybe it should try to liberate Septa and Melila islands first. Best regard, |
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