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Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria

Washington / Morocco Board News-- "Stop defending Syria; because when your turn comes you may need us!" roared The Qatari foreign minister addressing his Algeriancounterpart Mourad Medelci during the meeting of Foreign Ministers ofthe Arab League (AL) in Cairo on Saturday.

The animated “argument” between the two top diplomats, as reported by the Arab and Algerian press, came during the deliberation of the AL over how best to contain the dire situation in Syria . Following its failed attempt to save theregime of the late Libyan dictator Muamar Al-Gaddafi, the Algerian Government is challenging Arab efforts to press the regime of Bashar Al-Assad  to implement the Arab League Plan to end the bloodshed in Syria.

 

The Qataris and other international observers view  Algeria’s support of dying autocratic regimes as not rooted in an ideological belief or a strategic scheme but rather a desperate act of political self-preservation by the Algerian military in the face of fast changing political environment.
In fact, Algeria’s position on Syria is similar to the stand of Islamic Republic of Iran; when the reason for Algeirs clumsy approach is to stop the rise of Islamist governments in North Africa.   With news reports of mounting civilian casualties in Homs, Daraa and Hamma as a backdrop, Mr. Mourad Medelci finds himself in the familiar position of playing the recurring role of defending a bloody regime that is on its way out. Unlike during the crisis in Libya, this time around the tiny sheikhdom of Qatar is not playing “the diplomatic game” with another case of  “ an Algeria’s vague position”.

According to Algerian news reports, the Qatari Foreign Minister adjourned the Cairo meeting without giving Mr. Medelci a chance to express his views opposing  the AL decision to temporary suspend Syria’s membership in the Pan-Arab organization.   For the record, Mr. Medelci acknowledged that a heated exchange took place between him and the Qatari Minister but denied its literal content. Whether or not Qatar’s foreign Minister threatened- a term used by the Algerian press to describe the incident- his Algerian counterpart, the dormant Algerian-Qatari split over severalpolitical and religious issues in the Middle East and North Africa has surfaced again.  

The Algerian government unconditional support of Guaddafi, the Algerian press ferocious camping against the Qatari backed newly installed government in Tripoli did not go unnoticed in Doha.   While the Algerian government kept its position on the Libyan situation vague and elusive under the cover of fighting foreign intervention in the region, the Algerian press took on a vicious smear campaign against the Libyan rebels and their Qatari benefactors. Algerian websites and newspapers carried several articles sharply critical of  the Libyan rebels describing them at times as “rats” a term used by Gaddafi to describe his opponents.

The Algerian media campaign continues to target the Qatari bankrolled Al-Jazeera News Network accusing it of being an agent of the West and a vehicle for the Qatari government to execute  a French-British plot against the people of Libya and Syria.   Once the darling of the Algerian public for its support of Algiers potions in the Western Sahara conflict, some in the Algerian press turn against Al-Jazeera calling it derogatory names. If the Algerian officials were expecting the Qataris to sallow this bitter pill without retaliating, they were unpleasantly wrong.  
Qatari officials formulating a candid and well defined approach to foreign policy do not appreciate Algeria’s double game. Algeria’s tired trick of letting its press do the dirty work as the Algerian officials stay above the fray did not work with Qatar. The Qataris, familiar with Algerian political scene, are conscious that anti-Qatar press campaign in the Algerian media is well designed by certain corners of official Algeria.

The Algerian diplomats are using the cover of foreign military intervention as an excuse to let Assad and his army slaughters his people for the sake of staying in power.   Algeria’s support of dying autocratic regimes is not rooted in an ideological belief or a strategic scheme but rather a desperate act of political self-preservation in the face of fast changing political environment. In fact, Algeria’s position on Syria is similar to the Islamic Republic of Iran; when the reason for this clumsy approach is to stop the rise of Islamist government in North Africa.   Some Algerian journalists explain Qatar’s audacity in rebuking Algeria by the fact that the two major Algerian opposition leaders are based in Doha and frequent high-ranking Qatari officials.

Algerian officials are also well aware of the springing of two close allies of Qatar at its borders: Tunisia and Libya.   As the Arab leaders ready to meet in Rabat, Morocco, to decide the fate of Syria within the AL, Algeria finds itself at odd with most of the Arab Governments, the European Union and the United States.

Comments (51)  

 
ilfdinar
0 #1 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria ilfdinar 2011-11-15 10:42
stop with the propoganda hassan
the weakening of algeria is the weakening of moroccan
so stop with the bull
this site borders on the propaganda whenever it talks about algeria and it almost
never talks about tunisia mauritania libya egypt france it is always
about a bad thing why didn't you talk for example about the metro
stop please go have a life for who ever causes fitna risks hell
P.S of course Qatar would be better suited in finding a solution to bahrein ask
qatar why are you not asking for Nato in bahrein
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riffi
0 #2 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria riffi 2011-11-15 11:36
it is like that movie "look who is talking" Qatar a country who has all the royal family holding a key position in government and you name it.The little fatty boy who is running the country has to loose little weight ,it is getting up to his head.When you have money and power it is all good.
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borsa
0 #3 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria borsa 2011-11-15 16:42
Algerian diplomacy is experiencing a torrid time during the Arab Spring and I can't see this ending any time soon as the Algerian Mafia Generals continue their support for Syria's Assad when we all know his reign in power is coming to a bloody end.

The Algerian Mafia regime lost one good friend in Gaddafi and they are looking likely to lose another in Assad leaving them politically very isolated amongst the Arab nations. Who are the Algerian Mafia regime going to rely on politically South Africa? Perhaps Zimbabwe? Which ever way you analyse this, there is one ominous future for the Mafia Generals who run Algeria and it certainly doesn't look bright.
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Algeria
0 #4 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Algeria 2011-11-15 17:59
Dear mr. Misskey

Your hate and prejudice toward Algeria is affecting your judgment and making your articles about Algeria look like a cheap propaganda pieces.
Algeria is not TUnisia or Libya, we are not a Jeffersonian democracy by no means but we have more freedom than most ARab countries.
Algerians are not afraid of NAto or.......Qatar so instead of googling the word Algeria and looking for every negative piece of news about Algeria to hate on us you should focus on actual news that are deleted to Morocco
For example the beating up of WIdadi fans in Tunisia and the burning of. Your flag there.
Because last time I checked MOroccan fans were weclomed with open arms in Algeria but again that would not fit with your views.
Instead of kissing up to SPain in most of your articles you might want to remind your readers that SPain still occupies SEpta, Melila, MAadnous island and the canary islands.
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Morcelli
0 #5 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Morcelli 2011-11-15 20:01
Si Hassan,
You brought a very good point which is the Algerian authorities acting behind the scene to let their media do the dirty work. Very true. Rarely when you hear anything coming out of their leaders other than the usual crap about the sahara.

Still Bouteflika acting on orders from the generals will always bow to the qatari fat boy. Bouteflika will kiss and hug anyone who is not a Moroccan official. I mean this guy is a kissing machine.
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sokou
0 #6 mbasokou 2011-11-15 22:47
all of the kings of arab countries are dictator and mercenary of zionist regime. for example king of arab peninsula, king of emirate ,king of jordan , king of qatar and other kings. even in their own country every body hate them. but because of services they render to zionism they could stay on power. i like assad because he dare to fight zionism and help palestinian.i am sure he will stay on power and he will liberate the palestine. i am sure all arab corrupted kings will be annihilated soon.earth.
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Daniel Weatherman
0 #7 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Daniel Weatherman 2011-11-16 00:11
If the Qatari's play the same game they do when its "the Algerians turn" whatever Rabat does will mean nothing as the whole of North Africa will be in chaos. Morocco will either have to become a virtual client state like Qatar or Bahrain or resign itself to being next on the list. Surely you understand this. Things have gone too far too fast, the west is on the war path, its own economic system demands it conquer everything around it, turn on itself and then destroy everything to pay its interest bill.Anyone not listening to the offical story was hearing reports that the Syrian rebels were massing an army on the Turkish border months back, French navy planning for Libya in early Febuary, Mubarak's toppling on the front cover of the economist a year before it happened.
Its every regime for themselves no doubt but talking down the Algerians isn't going to help Morocco when Belhaj and company throw that country into civil war. Look at the photos of Sirte or Homs, they have and will destroy their own countries and for what? A millitary Junta, mob rule or a theocracy at gunpoint? Elements in western governments actively want to destroy nations so they can rebuild them to keep their economy going. Greece birth place of Democracy just became a nation of debt slaves, every time they made a move to assert their authority the stock market went down, impoverishing the rest of Europe. I have little love for Gaddafi, Assad and the Algerian generals, but NATO, Aljazeeras Qatari's and whoever is backing the rebel groups have already thrown two countries into absolute chaos.The dictators are the lesser of two evils now. Whose turn is it next and who is making these decisions? You think it can't happen here in Morocco but don't kid yourself, the wests got a new trick, pay mercs and street kids to fight the battles while you bomb the nation state millitary to death while the western media cheers it all on.Right 2 Protect. Chomsky was writing in Al jazeera how the Sping began in the camps of Western Sahara. Aljazeera and Qatar are just as ready to let this happen to Morocco and Moroccans as they are other leaders they'll play sides off against eachother if they have to.The ideals of the Arab Spring are dead like the city of Sirte, if Assad buries it along with whoever started it and is spreading it thats fine by me, give the guy a medal,just so long as it doesn't move to the streets of morocco. Be thankful Morocco is on the security council now, they might have avoided everything entirely, delayed the inevitable or bought time to set things straight.
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Morcelli
0 #8 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Morcelli 2011-11-16 00:23
Angry supporters of President Assad attacked the Moroccan embassy in Damascus and stripped it of its flag, ambassador Mohammed Khassasi told AFP news agency.

" www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15762260 "
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Morcelli
0 #9 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Morcelli 2011-11-16 00:27
Syrians pelt Morocco embassy ‘with eggs, stones’
(AFP)

16 November 2011
DAMASCUS — Protesters pelted the Moroccan embassy in Damascus with eggs and stones on Wednesday, Morocco’s ambassador said as his country hosted an Arab League meeting aimed at ending bloody unrest in Syria.

The ambassador, Mohammed Khassasi, told AFP that more than 100 demonstrators had attacked the building and stripped it of its flag.

Khassasi said “between 100 and 150 people protested in front of the embassy and attacked the chancellery with stones and eggs and acted irresponsibly by also attacking the Moroccan flag.”

Morocco immediately condemned the attack.

“I condemn the attacks against the Moroccan embassy in Syria ... and what is happening inside and outside the Arab embassies,” Moroccan Foreign Minister Taib Fassi Fihri said in Rabat.

On Monday Syria’s foreign minister, Walid Muallem, apologised for protester attacks on foreign embassies after the Arab League voted to suspend his country from the bloc.

“I, as foreign minister, apologise for this matter,” Muallem told a news conference in the Syrian capital, adding that protecting the embassies was part of Syria’s responsibilities.

On Saturday, hundreds of angry demonstrators attacked the embassies of France, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

France recalled its ambassador to Syria on Wednesday while the US envoy, abruptly withdrawn last month because of security threats, is supposed to return to Syria in “days to weeks,” Washington has said.
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man en blanc
0 #10 I can't keep up!man en blanc 2011-11-16 09:45
So, now Qatar is having a hissy fit about Algeria! Yes! Once Qatar says Algeria is bad, the world as we know it, is toast!
Anyway. How about those Kardashians chicks? And. How about my favorite University? You know, the one with the despicable child abuses? If I really, really, really cared to to care, I would say that the Jews are somehow involved.
But I don't care.
I did once though. I cared about the Sahara, I cared about what Algeria might do. I cared about what Morocco would do in return. Talk about endless disappointments !I cared about what I was fed. Actually I didn't, hence the indigestion for the ages! The Sahara is ours, the Algerians suck, Tindouf is hell, Tindouf is heaven, Laayoune is Geneva, Laayoune is Mogadishu.
Algeria supported Ghaddafi, and : He Be No Mo'!.
Algeria is supporting Assad,and : soon He Be No Mo'!

We all know that the Jews are behind all this turmoil. And : soon they be no mo' Jews!!!
How would Algeria support?
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riffi
0 #11 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria riffi 2011-11-16 11:39
Daniel you nailed it.Also the U.S. and Europe are giving too much power to the oil producers countries specially the golf.We all know they need them to come to their rescue financially but to let those real dictatorship call the shots like Qatar it is like giving a kid a real machine gun in christmass.
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borsa
0 #12 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria borsa 2011-11-16 13:27
I think everyone can see the Syrian regime unraveling right before our eyes. I just hope and pray this doesn't turn into another Iraq due to the sectarian divisions in this country.

@Daniel Weatherman - I strongly disagree with Chomsky when he said the "Arab Spring" began in the camps of the Moroccan Sahara. Chomsky clearly does not understand the historical and political circumstances surrounding this issue borne out of the Cold War era.

For all its negatives Morocco is right now a beacon of political stability in the Arab world.
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Morcelli
0 #13 Blame!Blame!Bla me! - they got you to blame everyoneMorcelli 2011-11-17 00:39
The sahara? blame the US and France and not Algeria
Syria? Blame blame israel, France and Qatar
Libya? Blame Great Britain, the US, France and qatar
Yemen? Blame the US and Saudi Arabia
Somalia? who cares about Somalia?
Palestine? you know the story...............
Cuba? blame Florida
Tunisia? Blame France not blame lkhaddar ( moul karrousa) bouazizi

Never ever blame the dictators, the elite, the generals, the sellouts.
Blame the jews, blame Hollywood Jews and the Media and AIPAC, blame lihoud l7azqin,
blame sbalyoun l7azqin, blame Warren buffet, Blame capitalism, socialism, communism, Hinduism, islamism, the beardos, the rug heads, the camel jockeys, the turban heads, the NY taxi drivers, blame lboulis, lamroud, blame man en blanc and aziz lalami, the NYPD and especially blame chtaini ( where is he?) I sincerely hope that he's all right.

Dear Morocco Board. Any news about chtaini? I live few miles from chtaini, the least I can do is pay him a visit in case he needs something.
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chtaini
0 #14 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria chtaini 2011-11-19 20:45
Hi Morcelli!

Hello to everyone. I am in Morocco. For your information, things here are looking better and surely improving. With the new constitution and the forthcoming election, accountability and political responsibility are going to be the name of the game. As we say here "Ilee farrat Karrat". People want change and deserve it. It is up to the elected of official here in Morocco to take run with the legislative ball and score for the people. Many laws are going to be ammended, changed or abandoned. New laws will be legislated all in the intrest of the Majority of the Moroccan people. Everyone is watching the new elections and the who the new faces are going to be.
Morcelli, I proposed to you once to meet with you. Hopefully when I get back, we can do that. Keep your debating spirit going. As to Morocco Board, keep up with the good work.
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Morcelli
0 #15 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Morcelli 2011-11-19 23:49
Dear Chtaini,
I am just glad that you are doing all right. I sincerely was worried about you, it did not make sense to me that all of sudden you disappear from the scene.
What Can I say? I wish I were in Morocco too, t witness the change we hear about.
I hope that you are running for elections, you can about Morocco more than anyone I know, I think you can be and Morocco need, get things started for the generation to come.
Again, Happy that you are alive and kicking!:-)
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Moroccan Patriot
0 #16 I have been in Morocco for over 5 years now!Moroccan Patriot 2011-11-20 07:27
I can tell you that NOTHING is changing. The only thing that seems very clear is that everyone who is going to vote is going to vote for PJD.

I spoke with my aunts husband earlier today. He works in a school and is actually one of the people charged with counting the votes in Kenitra. He basically told me that in his precinct about half of the people that are registered to vote, generally do not vote. He also said that about 2 percent of those who vote actually leave notes cursing at the people counting the votes, disparaging the government, etc... and another 1 or 2 percent simply do not seem to know how to vote and reading their vote is problematic.

He seems to believe that PJD has a very good shot of sweeping throughout the country. Another guy I know who works in Education also told me PJD is very strong in Agadir.

Essentially it looks like PJD, because of their religious slant are going to be the big winners. The real question is what are they going to be allowed to do once they win? The Constitution does not really change very much of the nuts and bolts stuff... so I guess we will see.

I am just happy that now that it seems clear that the elections will change nothing, the Moroccan Stock Exchange will finally bounce back!
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Morcelli
0 #17 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Morcelli 2011-11-20 08:59
MP,
You have 5 years in Morocco and you cannot see the change, If you were born in Morocco and lived in Morocco in the 60s, 70s,80s, even 90's I can assure you will see the change. Hassan II's Morocco is not M6's Morocco for sure.
If we still had Hassan II, we would certainly end up like Tunisia, Libya , and Egypt. We would be killing each other now. The reason Morocco is lot calmer is because Morocco started to change 15 years ago, when Hassan finally decided to let opposition (Youssoufi) in the government. Does this mean, we are there? of course we are not and we probably never get there, but at least by comparison, we are a better hands as if let's say Algeria, They will never be able to get a rid of their generals and the gas price is not helping either.
No matter who wind the elections in Morocco, theing will never change because the majority are thieves be it PJD, USPS, or KKK. They are all the same because the judicial system is flawed and no one is held accountable for breaking the law.
When corruption and bribery are the name of the game, there is no light in sight.
Of course my friend Chtaini who I am glad he's allright can always prove me wrong. He is in Morocco and he has a better assessment of the situation.



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haras
0 #18 to "Moroccan Patriot"haras 2011-11-20 15:16
It's astonishing how you manage, in a couple of paragraphs, to go through all the talking points of a jealous press in some neighboring (but not very friendly) country. So the facts in Morocco are: No change - people are desperate - They will vote for PJD - Constitution bad - No change even with PJD - Stock Exchange back but for the wrong reasons!!!

We're losing no matter what!!!! even the good news, when there are, are just symptoms of an even worse malaise... franchement, you're the first "patriot" who wouldn't bet a penny on his "country"...
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Amine
0 #19 Morocco and Moroccans are changing by the minuteAmine 2011-11-20 23:22
Dear MP
You didn't live under THE Basri's regime, were a merda holds all kinda of powers... Morocco has changed big time, i don't mean TGV or highways ...i mean people can talk,voice opinions and even disagree with l makhzen and co...You don't know the "simi" like i knew it, you don't know about l bergaga f lycee or la fac .... You didn't visit la Prison central de kenitra in the 80's ... So yes Morocco has changed my dear friend... is Morocco perfect and do Moroccans want more? No morocco isn't perfect (nor any country in the world) and yes i believe the new generation of Moroccans want more (That's why they are in the streets)... To be honest Morocco has evolved nicely comparing to others in the regions, i am happy with the freedoms that i have as a Moroccan today, cause we didn't have them in the 70's, 80's and even 90's... we had koura dial mika b rb3ine rial and nike chragem ... and if you see lwachma after dark u r chances were fifty fifty ... Let me ask you this: 3lache kayne ghlaffe dial l plastic f la carte national?? the old carte by the way ... So please MP Morocco has indeed changed.
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borsa
0 #20 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria borsa 2011-11-21 03:07
@"Moroccan Patriot"

Quote:
I am just happy that now that it seems clear that the elections will change nothing, the Moroccan Stock Exchange will finally bounce back!
You are happy?

A true patriot is never happy when he sees the problems afflicting their people. A true patriot strives to improve the condition of their fellow citizens. A true Patriot encourages positive moves happening in their country no matter how small.

All your posts are nothing but negative pessimistic rants against Morocco, Lord have mercy on Morocco if people like you ever held the reigns of power in Morocco.
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haras
0 #21 to borsa and Morokkanharas 2011-11-22 02:04
borsa,

You have a good heart, and with it comes a forgiving memory...

Here is the link to an old article where "another" "moroccan patriot" was caught switching back and forth to his other nickname, "Algerian" (not that there is anything wrong with it). And you had an appropriate comment on it.

http://www.moroccoboard.com/news/5280-soldiers-from-algeria-a-zimbabwe-fighting-in-libya-for-gaddafi-

What the "better than you" crowd among us in here don't seem to understand is that a Moroccan would rarely describe himself as a patriot, especially in this forum, many of us would consider it somewhere between redundant and pretentious, others will see in it a flag or a proof of fishy intents.

to Daniel Weatherman:
I'll take a Belhaj over the DAF (deserteurs de l'armee francaise) Generals anytime... as for Chomsky's comments, sorry but aren't we supposed to have a better read into what is going on in our own countries? do we have always to see things through a westerner's eyes? how s****d is that? was Boauzizi inspired by polisario? and the peaceful protesters in Cairo by the butchers and thugs of Gdeim Izik? I don't think so...
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Algerian
0 #22 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Algerian 2011-11-22 03:49
Haras,

Instead of witch-hunting and disrespecting MP and Daniel Weatherman try to focus on arguments or facts that might support your........ "point of view" try to argument your views by backing them with facts, because using @#$^ words and disrespecting others will not going to make you look any smarter.
As for you saying "I'll take a Belhaj over the DAF (deserteurs de l'armee francaise) Generals anytime..." Last time i checked, you did not have a say in the matter of who Governs Morocco.
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Moroccan Patriot
0 #23 Stand behind my statement - The Moroccan Foreign ministry screwed up Moroccan Patriot 2011-11-22 04:29
I am NOT an Algerian. I stand firmly behind my statement that the Moroccan Foreign ministry screwed up when they required all Algerians to get Visas.

Does anyone disagree? Does anyone think it was a good idea to require ALL Algerians to get visa's in order to enter Morocco because of the assumed actions of a handful of Algerians?

If you do think it was a good idea, think of the Billions Morocco is losing from our economy every year because of the closed borders.

Do you people think we should keep the borders closed?

This is the right time to reach out to the Algerian people. We should start by admitting that the Foreign minister of Morocco who made the decision to require all Algerians to have visas before entering Morocco made a very poor decision. This is a fact. What did he think was going to happen after he did that? Of course Algeria was going to install the same requirements. Who benefits from these crazy anti trade barriers? The colonialsts of course!
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Morcelli
0 #24 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Morcelli 2011-11-22 08:43
MP,
Welcome to Morocco. It is not the foreign minister who makes such decisions in Morocco. There is someone called a king and the king at the time was Hassan II but I do agree that Hassan II and his dog lbasri should not have imposed a visa on the Algerians. At the time Algeria was so screwed up and everyone was killing each other, Hassan II wants to bury the generals alive by tagging them a country that sponsors terrorism. Hassan II was a ruthless dictator in the same caliber as qaddafi, bin labidine and Mubarak, he called himself the father of all Moroccans, in other words if he is the father, he has all rights over his illiterate children.
M6 is another breed, he does not believe that we should be at odds with Algeria, he asked to turn the page, unfortunately, the generals will have none of that because Hassan II gave them the 1994 excuse to keep Morocco and Algeria at odds with each other.
As I said to you before, you need to stick to your Israel bashing, the NYPD, and how good it is to be married to several wives. The Algeria-Morocco issue is beyond you my friend.
I would rather hear "Algerian" who is very well informed about the issue, his problem is that he sounds like the mouth piece of APS "Algerian Press Service". He also loves to use 1994 Marrakesh attack and the sand war to prove his point and when that does not work, he would say, well Morocco should give up the Sahara and try to get Sebta and Melilia instead. Typical Algerian crap, supporting Qaddafi who was about to kill the entire Libyan population but not supporting Morocco against and Spain/Aznar . That is simply evil my friend as in the axe of evil.


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Obori
0 #25 Algerian PatriotObori 2011-11-22 09:12
Is Moroccan Patriot really Moroccan? I can challenge anyone if he could prove it?
I am more than certain he is part of Algerian secret police. One thing for sure is that most of Morocco's problems are from Algerian regime..
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borsa
0 #26 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria borsa 2011-11-22 16:41
@haras I certainly have not forgotten that episode my friend. Funny how both "Algerian" and "Moroccan Patriot" post almost simultaneously to defend these accusations :D maybe there is a genuine reason for this and this person suffers from a debilitating multiple personality disorder but my intuition tells me otherwise.
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haras
0 #27 to Algerian and haras 2011-11-22 18:24
Algerian, my saying "I'll take a Belhaj over the DAF (deserteurs de l'armee francaise) Generals anytime..." was in response to Daniel Weatherman (whoever that is [removed]void(0 );-), he’s the one who put them on the table, I thought to myself that there must be something good about someone who gained the trust of 90% percent of Algerians, as opposed to some vulgar DAF traitors, especially when his party (the FIS) promised that getting rid of the Sahara would be their first order of business at the international level, they sounded good to me…

“Last time i checked” it must be a long time ago, things are moving on this side, you need to upgrade, otherwise, it’ll be a 4-0 at any occasion…

Moroccan Patriot (who am I kidding)…
You reminded me of “I am not a crook”… if you have to say it, odds are, you surely are…
;-);-);-);-)
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Algerian
0 #28 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Algerian 2011-11-23 03:12
Haras,

By all means my friend, if you are so in love with FIS. You guys should turn power in Morocco to their Moroccan counterpart.
As for The FIS planned first order of Business in the 90's its was stopping the democratic process and the starting the khelafa Islamya and as a matter of fact, Mr. Hachani, one of the FIS leaders, stated that FIS was willing to imports people from Sudan and Afghanistan and that if any segment of the population is not happy, wellll they can always leave Algeria.
As for the 4-0 thing, its just a football game and its not a dignity thing but since you insist in bring up that game, how about you tell us about the 5-1 in Casablanca and i even have the video to prove it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1s4wxZuGt4

Morceli,


The King Is Dead, Long Live The King.
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Algerian
0 #29 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Algerian 2011-11-23 03:49
Morcelli,

What's wrong with putting things in prospective?
I never said that Morocco should give up The W. Sahara, i just said that Morocco should agree to a referendum that includes independence as an option, the same referendum Morocco agreed to when it signed the cease fire with the POLISARIO FORCES. ( a referendum that would only include the native Sahrawi according the Spanish census of 74 not the Moroccan settlers)
iF The W. Sahara is such an integral part of Morocco why is that Morocco agreed to split it with Mauritania......etc.
As for Septa, Melila and the Maadnous Island i was just trying to remind Mr. Masiky that Algeria does not occupy an Inch of Moroccan land ( unless you are from the Istiklal party and still day dream about the eastern sahara) and instead of playing nice with Spain he should use his position to lobby or pressure Spain and may god Help Morocco , that the people's party in back in power in Madrid because we all know what happened last time it was in power.

Finally, Mr. Moecelli, are you still talking and repeating the same baseless accusations about Algeria supporting Khadafi?
The war has ended and we are still waiting to see the proofs or the mercenaries that were captured and trust me if Algeria was really supporting Khadafi, the Libyans would have still been singing and praising Khadafi and his green book.
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haras
0 #30 Regarding the bordersharas 2011-11-23 04:04
I tackle with the issue since some of us like to milk it and present as a Moroccan failure, or sometimes just for diversion, like the last post by the Moroccan Patriot who stands behind....

Let’s be clear on one thing, I was in Morocco when the atlas asni attacks occurred, and I remember the alarm it created around the country. You couldn’t travel from one city to the next one without passing two or three checkpoints.

That was the time when the war was raging in Algeria between the military and the islamists, there were two main Islamic armed militias, the Armed Islamic Movement that was directly attached to the FIS and the GIA, created by the Generals, to discredit the AIS and the FIS, and build a horrendous image of Islamists in Algeria and elsewhere.

Unlike the AIS, the GIA didn’t limit its action to fighting the military and other security forces; and was involved in many barbaric. By 1994 the GIA had created a real buzz by committing (random) mass murders, targeting intellectuals and foreigners and extending its activities beyond borders including the hijacking planes (Air France) and others attacks in Paris Metro.

The Atlas Asni attack was “coincidently” planned and perpetrated by Frenchmen of Algerian descent, the infamous “kelkal” group.

Now, there is no “smoking gun” as to whether the “roots” (lousy choice of words) of the attack lead to Algeria, I mean by that the GIA or the Algerian secret services (for those who still make a difference), but given the context they had no choice but to impose the visa on ALL Algerian to save the touristic season, and guarantee a return to normality in our cities.

Now regarding the Algerian response, we have to remember that the Generals never liked the climate of rapprochement under President Benjdid and the creation of the Maghreb Arab Union with huge hopes and tremendous expectations. They got even angrier when President Boudiaf (who lived in Morocco for 30 years but kept his Algerian pride and wouldn’t call himself Moroccan Patriot) got in office and tried to bury once and for all the unresolved issues with Morocco, he didn’t, but died trying…

So when the occasion “presented itself” they jumped on it and not only imposed visa on Moroccans but went as far as closing the borders; which, in international relations, is the sign of a huge conflict.

Morocco, especially the Eastern provinces, did profit from the previous situation when thousands of tourists were visiting and a lot of trade was taking place, I don’t know how much, but I wonder where MP (do not mistake with military police) pulled the billions he was talking about from.

This been said, we should also know that Algeria did profit as well, and there is a study by an Algerian Economist who shows that "L'Algérie perd entre 2 et 2,2 milliards de dollars à cause de la fermeture de la frontière avec le Maroc. C'est là une réalité regrettable", si l’on se refere a Mr Karim Mahmoudi, président de la Confédération algérienne des cadres de la finance et de la comptabilité (CCFC).

Since M6 dropped the visa on Algerians desiring to visit Morocco, the ball became entirely in the Algerian field, it is up to them to take actions to benefit everybody or to maintain the unproductive and childish status quo. What we don’t want is some MP coming here trying to convince us that by imposing the visa we caused Algeria the incurable harm and that we should apologize and pray, and that would increase our chances for the borders (and heaven’s doors???) to be open..

I don’t know about my other countrymen, but for my point of view, it is for some reason that Algeria closed the borders, and I don’t think it relates to apologies, and I don’t think we can do anything about it. If you want a proof, try to stretch your facts and arguments and explain to us why didn’t the Algerians wait for the French apology for the death and humiliation they brought to their land for more than a century before unclenching any trade or diplomatic relations with France??? …
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Algerian
0 #31 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Algerian 2011-11-23 04:44
Haras,

You forget to mention that after that attack every Algerian tourist was expelled from Morocco.
As for you saying that You are not sure how much your eastern province benefited from the trade:-) and that the Algerian benefited the most now... that's funny:-)
So according to you Algeria would benefit the most right:-)? So Please tell me why is it that your Gov. at all levels is begging days and night for the borders to be open again or is it because of the goodness of their heart.

As for the apologies, Algeria never demanded any apologies, you imposed visa, our answer was visa plus the closure of the border, end of story.
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Morcelli
0 #32 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Morcelli 2011-11-23 05:53
Algerian,
You are making progress, this is the first time you did not mention 1994 and la guerre des sables, and thank god you are not asking for an apology.
and please don't act dumb and start telling us that Algeria did not support Qaddafi. Algeria and Syria the only dictatorships who were against the no fly zone.

You said The W. Sahara is such an integral part of Morocco why is that Morocco agreed to split it with Mauritania
Guess what? I agree with you, Hassan II should not have offered any split but that was a strategic move at the time. Hassan II did not want to fight Algeria and Mauritania at the same.
There is something else for you, Hassan II should not have offered any referendum in the first place, Moroccans did not have any say in what hassan II was doing, but thank goodness his son was able to rectify his father's mistakes, he removed this independence option that WE Moroccans never has any say.
Now you got my drift why Moroccans are so in love with M6? He is not afraid. He knows, he is doing the right thing for the Moroccan people. Now I want you to go to a little corner and pray for your generals to be brave and do the same thing instead of placing boutef in front to do their dirty work
Poor Boutef he can't even think about going against the generals, he would certainly end up dead just like Boudiaf.

As you can see, we are not far apart, I do agree with you that Hassan II should not have brought Mauritania into the picture and he should not have offered any referendum.
We are OK now, His son M6 dealt with the issue firmly and rightly.

Next time you mess with us, I'll talk to our national team to beat your behind 8-0 :-)
And as a nice gesture, I would like to offer you MP to play with and discuss the sahara issue with.





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Algerian
0 #33 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Algerian 2011-11-23 06:26
Now that's the kind of relation i am talking about

Il a décidé de délocaliser son usine de médicaments en Algérie
Entretien avec Omar TAZI, PDG du laboratoire marocain SOTHEMA


http://www.tsa-algerie.com/economie-et-business/entretien-avec-omar-tazi-pdg-du-laboratoire-marocain-sothema_18295.html


Alger veut profiter de l'expérience agricole marocaine.





L’Algérie et le Maroc entendent développer leur coopération agricole. Une délégation de 150 opérateurs et hommes d’affaires marocains conduite par le ministre de l’Agriculture et de la pêche maritime, Aziz Akhannouch, est actuellement à Alger où elle prend part au 7e Salon international de l’agriculture Agro Expo qui a commencé ce lundi 21 novembre.

Ce salon, inauguré par le ministre de l’Agriculture Rachid Benaïssa en présence de son homologue marocain, accueille le Maroc comme invité d’honneur. Il a réservé un pavillon pour une trentaine d’exposants marocains. Un forum algéro‑marocain consacré à la présentation des stratégies mises en place par les deux pays, à savoir la Politique du renouveau agricole et rural pour l’Algérie et le Plan vert pour le Maroc, se tiendra mardi 22 novembre en marge de cette manifestation.

Le Maroc, deuxième exportateur mondial d’agrumes, devance largement l’Algérie dans le secteur de l’agriculture, avec des exportations agricoles de plus de 2,6 milliards de dollars. Le royaume de Mohamed VI produit notamment des agrumes, de l’huile d’olive, des olives de table, des céréales, des tomates… L’Algérie cherche à tirer profit de l’expérience agricole marocaine pour développer son agriculture encore archaïque.

Cette visite intervient dans un contexte marqué par un début de réchauffement des relations entre Alger et Rabat. Les Algériens soupçonnent toutefois les Marocains d’entretenir l’ambiguïté, notamment sur la question du Sahara occidental, principal sujet de discorde entre les deux pays. « Le Maroc est un pays voisin et frère avec lequel nous souhaitons établir une coopération sincère et optimale au mieux des intérêts de nos deux peuples et en fondant davantage nos rapports sur la complémentarité , la solidarité et le bon voisinage. Il reste entendu que la question du Sahara occidental continuera de relever des Nations Unies pour y trouver une solution conforme à la légalité internationale », rappelle Amar Belani, porte‑parole du ministère des Affaires étrangères, dans un texte posté sur Facebook. Comprendre : pour Alger, un éventuel rapprochement avec Rabat ne signifie pas un règlement automatique du dossier sahraoui comme semblent le suggérer les Marocains.

TSA
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Aziz El Alami
0 #34 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Aziz El Alami 2011-11-23 08:21
I am so tired of all this bickering and animosity between two people who are so much alike, yet, sooooo far apart!!!! I am quoting the GREAT Bob Marley who once wrote and sang:

Until the philosophy which hold one race superior
And another Inferior,
Is finally, And permanently
Discredited
And abandoned -
Everywhere is war -
Me say war.
That until there no longer
First class and second class citizens of any nation
Until the color of a man's skin
Is of no more significance than the color of his eyes -
Me say war.

That until the basic human rights
Are equally guaranteed to all,
Without regard to race -
Dis a war.

That until that day
The dream of lasting peace,
World citizenship
Rule of international morality
Will remain in but a fleeting illusion to be pursued,
But never attained -
Now everywhere is war - war.

And until the ignoble and unhappy regimes
that hold our brothers in Angola,
In Mozambique,
South Africa
Sub-human bondage
Have been toppled,
Utterly destroyed -
Well, everywhere is war -
Me say war.

War in the east,
War in the west,
War up north,
War down south -
War - war -
Rumors of war.
And until that day,
The African continent
will not know peace,
We Africans will fight - we find it necessary -
And we know we shall win
as we are confident
in the victory

Of good over evil -
Good over evil, yeah!
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Moha le fou moha le sage
0 #35 truth seekerMoha le fou moha le sage 2011-11-24 01:45
when all our puppet gvt in North africa will fall a fake sharia gvt will raise and then Hungry French with German upset NATO+ Israel and the US will slaughter 300 millions tetes noires...
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haras
0 #36 clarificationharas 2011-11-24 18:20
Algerian,

Yes the Algerian tourists were expelled, at the time they would have expelled even more Moroccans if they could… but let’s not bring up this subject, should I remind you how the Moroccans in Algeria were brought in trucks to the borders after the green march

Regarding how much the Eastern provinces suffered from the closed borders, I have no indication on the actual loss, but someone who has a valid and referenced statistic is welcome to enlighten us… just for your information, there are studies done in here in the US, by academic institutions that show that everybody in the region would profit from an integrated Maghreb Union (Market), however, Algeria is set to profit more from than any other country, and I am not referring to the absolute values but in the percentage growth in the GDP.

Go and check those FACTS on your own, but before doing that, take a map, and look at it, and try to explain to us, why is it that the country in the center of the Maghreb is the one blocking any union between the members? apart from the fact that some of your leaders are still living in the cold war... and that the economy is not their priority..

If you don’t ask for apologies, try and persuade your twin (the Moroccan Patriot) to not bother us with his lame logic and his dropped out of nowhere facts.

Regarding the Sahara, and the 1974 census, it is funny that someone who pleads for the self determination of some 50,000 people at the time, is the same person who defended taking away the same right from the 26 million Algerians on 1991…

And regarding our relations with Spain, the Sebta and Melilla, I am confused, what was your government stand during the crisis over the Maadnouss Island?As I recall, the members of your government took turns on camera to show their support for Spain, you just cannot have it both ways, can you?

Finally, if you think that the borders should be closed, that Algeria is in its right to shelter, arm, fund and support diplomatically the Polisario and provide them with mercenaries, if you support your government in taking stand against Morocco even over its colonized territories (as you seem to acknowledge), why do you spend so much time on a Moroccan forum????

For the 5-1 game, that was a long time ago, and you seem to be stuck there… since then, there was a 4-0 on 1986, a 3-1 on 2004 and a 4-0 that still hurts…
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Algerian
0 #37 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Algerian 2011-11-25 21:46
Haras,

You said"Yes the Algerian tourists were expelled, at the time they would have expelled even more Moroccans if they could… but let’s not bring up this subject, should I remind you how the Moroccans in Algeria were brought in trucks to the borders after the green march"

Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right.

You said "Regarding how much the Eastern provinces suffered from the closed borders, I have no indication on the actual loss, but someone who has a valid and referenced statistic is welcome to enlighten us… just for your information, there are studies done in here in the US, by academic institutions that show that everybody in the region would profit from an integrated Maghreb Union (Market), however, Algeria is set to profit more from than any other country, and I am not referring to the absolute values but in the percentage growth in the GDP.

Go and check those FACTS on your own, but before doing that, take a map, and look at it, and try to explain to us, why is it that the country in the center of the Maghreb is the one blocking any union between the members? apart from the fact that some of your leaders are still living in the cold war... and that the economy is not their priority.. "

Why don't you blame Spain too for stubbornly not opening its borders to Morocco? Surely the same economic rationale applies. The key reason is that there is absolutely no economic interest for Algeria (or any other counry) to faciliate the marijuana smuggling trade from the world's number one producer. Moroccans are skilled and shrewed workers, but their domestic market is just too small and needs capital inflows or access to a larger consumer market to develop. The real issue is lack of trust and the destabilising effect of France's influence in the region,Morocco' s main backer .
The following quote from A Moroccan source will give you a better understanding of our refusal
"Même les baguettes de pain passent quotidiennement de Maghnia à Oujda, où un marché appelé Souk El Fellah (marché du paysan) propose exclusivement des produits algériens. Ce nom désigne les anciennes grandes surfaces algériennes ouvertes du temps du socialisme. Les produits soutenus par le Trésor public voisin font fureur au Maroc, par ces temps de crise. A Ahfir, nous croisons un Casablancais venu avec une tonne d’ordonnances, à la recherche de médicaments, surtout ceux destinés aux malades chroniques et non pris en charge par la sécurité sociale marocaine, mais largement subventionnés en Algérie. La ventoline (pour les asthmatiques), par exemple, coûte dix fois plus cher au Maroc qu’en Algérie.

À une quinzaine de kilomètres de la ville d’Oujda, le poste frontière est pourtant bien gardé : un barrage, des hommes en uniforme, un panneau qui signale une interdiction de photographier. Mais il en est autrement des champs avoisinants, par lesquels transitent les produits de contrebande. Celle-ci emploierait près de 6 000 personnes, selon les milieux d’affaires. En tête des produits vendus sur le marché parallèle au Maroc : l’essence algérienne deux fois moins chère, les dattes, des couvertures, des ustensiles de cuisine, des produits de beauté, mais aussi des médicaments."
Just note that before 1994 30% of the subsidized Algerian products were ending up in Morocco.
Bottom line, Morocco need to get richer or drop its blind allegiance to France or give something to Algeria (such as a fair settlement on the Western-Sahara) , for Algeria to decide to work with Morocco.

You said"Regarding the Sahara, and the 1974 census, it is funny that someone who pleads for the self determination of some 50,000 people at the time, is the same person who defended taking away the same right from the 26 million Algerians on 1991… "

Well, The Justice and Development Party just got over 80 seats, we will see how you guys are going to handle it, even though PJD are NOT as hardcore as the FIS.

You said"And regarding our relations with Spain, the Sebta and Melilla, I am confused, what was your government stand during the crisis over the Maadnouss Island?As I recall, the members of your government took turns on camera to show their support for Spain, you just cannot have it both ways, can you?

Before blaming our position you should tell us how is it that you guys did not even try to get back an island few yards away from your coasts, and set there and watched, while your gendarmes were humiliated by Spain, and in the same time your Gov. Officials were praising and spoiling the visiting Spanish officials, as they say in French ""Il ne faut pas être plus royaliste que le roi" ("One must not be more royalist than the king")

You said" why do you spend so much time on a Moroccan forum???? "

i AM HERE to fulfill my duty as an Algerian to expose some of the lies spread in this blog.

As for football, again, its not a dignity thing and its nothing but a sport and not a war, Nonetheless i still get a big smile whenever i watch that 5-1 in Casa.
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Moroccan Patriot
0 #38 PJD won - So What?Moroccan Patriot 2011-11-26 00:33
PJD was the big winner of the elections in Morocco. You know who was a bigger winner? The Feb. 20th Movement. They did not have to do much, but their vocal demonstrations managed to keep most people from participating in the electoral process.

At one polling station in Rabat, 17% of those who posted votes wrote insults to the government on their ballots. This is very encouraging.

From my perspective, the PJD is much better at being in the opposition than they are at governing as their party has zero diplomatic skills. Their leader resorted to calling Fassi Al Fihri names, which is ok for you or me on this anonymous board, signing in under pseudonyms but is a big no can do, when you represent what is supposed to be a respected party.

Here is what the Government is going to do:

They are going to send DST agents to buy off the members of PJD who won seats in the recent election. The ones who do not get bought off will be blackmailed, and those not blackmailed will be prosecuted indirectly in some cases and directly in others.

You know how this gets done? Well, it is quite simple... Most Moroccans earn a majority of their earnings under the table. If they do not directly earn their livings under the table then members of their immediate family probably do. In many cases, a majority of their incomes are brought in illegally. For example, teachers are technically prohibited from earning money by giving students, "hours" - but this is by and large ignored. Alcohol consumption is technically illegal, as is changing dollars or Euros for family members without using a bank. There are so many things that are technically illegal (intentionally done) that the government can prosecute the entire PJD in the courts and run out those who do not accept bribes. Even the way independent business is run is such that common practices, like paying all of your employees SMIG and then making up the difference in cash is also known as TAX EVASION! I will not even start on forcing people to justify incomes and taxes paid on income. The Government will not need to torture anyone, and it will give the PJD a very big black eye if they don't play ball.

As for the leader of the PJD, he will either be co-opted or taken out (he may have an accident) as his whole platform for helping his party win was by saying, "we are not friends of the monarchy". As an individual he posses a potential alternative to the current system, has organizational abilities and is very popular, so the only solution for someone who would spit in the eye of the monarchy so publicly is to eliminate them.

I do not support any of these things, I am just saying how I expect things to play out. I do not claim to be a clairvoyant in predicting the Big wins for the PJD, but I predict they will have a much more difficult time governing than they did getting elected, and lets face it, dictatorships don't stay in power by being stupid. The Moroccan dictatorship is far smarter than any of the others in the Arab world. They understand that going after purse strings and using the courts is far more effective than shooting people in the streets or torturing them in underground chambers.

I just hope that the MASI bounces back, now that it is clear nothing will change!
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haras
0 #39 Demolitionharas 2011-11-26 07:00
Algerian,

I see that you are going for the bottom of the barrel, but I am sure that in a couple of exchanges you’ll drop even lower, and that is good trade since it serves my goal in exposing you as the mouthpiece for the Algeria Military Oligarchy that you are

You said "Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right.” Look who’s talking, you’re the one defending closing the borders and imposing the visa… also, don’t you dare equate Morocco asking Algerian tourists to leave the country after a series of terrorist attacks, by other Algerians, with the suffering and misery that you bestowed on Moroccans living in Algeria after the green march….

You said "Why don't you blame Spain too for stubbornly not opening its borders to Morocco? Surely the same economic rationale applies.” As a matter of fact, we don’t have borders with Spain, as for Sebta and Melilia, there are check points, and they’re not closed…. Why don’t you stick with things you know???

You said “The key reason is that there is absolutely no economic interest for Algeria (or any other country) to facilitate the marijuana smuggling trade from the world's number one producer.” And all the other nonsense related to illegal trafficking, I missed the part where it was OK to smuggle cannabis or other hallucinating drugs (from Algeria to Morocco) through the customs!!! Again, you are just echoing the Generals (stupid) talking points.. In fact the trafficking business went up after the borders were closed, but you know that, you even provided a reference (the text in French) to it HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHA…

You said “Moroccans are skilled and shrewed workers, but their domestic market is just too small and needs capital inflows or access to a larger consumer market to develop.” I “appreciate” your honesty, so you recognize that your country’s primary objective is to asphyxiate the Moroccan economy, even if in doing so it harms the Algerian economy or costs it some losses, 2 to 2.2 billion a year to be more precise??? If you follow the news, we have capital inflows, coming from other sources... no thanks to you…

You said “The real issue is lack of trust and the destabilising effect of France's influence in the region,Morocco' s main backer .” the question is why aren’t you our main backers??? You didn’t mind our (help against the same France) when you needed it??? It would be payback for a change?? Just joking, it’s not your nature, as for France, I guess you’ll have to learn to live with it now that they’re in your backyard, you were the main backer of Gaddafi, turns out he was the wrong pick

You said "Bottom line, Morocco need to get richer or drop its blind allegiance to France or give something to Algeria (such as a fair settlement on the Western-Sahara) , for Algeria to decide to work with Morocco. “ Thank you for making the link to the Sahara very clear, Morocco is indeed getting richer and as for France, I’d rather have a rational ally with whom I can have a common interest than a “brother” who’s self-confessed sole priority is to cause me harm…

You said "Well, The Justice and Development Party just got over 80 seats, we will see how you guys are going to handle it, even though PJD are NOT as hardcore as the FIS. “ we’ll see, in the meanwhile, and regarding the Sahara, and the 1974 census, it is funny that someone who pleads for the self determination of some 50,000 people at the time, is the same person who defended taking away the same right from the 26 million Algerians on 1991…

You said "Before blaming our position you should tell us how is it that you guys did not even try to get back an island few yards away from your coasts, and set there and watched, while your gendarmes were humiliated by Spain, and in the same time your Gov. Officials were praising and spoiling the visiting Spanish officials,” Again, Why don’t you stick with things you know?? Obviously you don’t have a clue, just repeating the same old Algerian crap, go and check the worse memory of Ana Palacio… so now that the before is out of the way, can you enlighten us as what was your government stand during the crisis over the Maadnouss Island? As I recall, the members of your government took turns on camera to show their support for Spain, you just cannot have it both ways, can you?

You said " as they say in French ""Il ne faut pas être plus royaliste que le roi" ("One must not be more royalist than the king") “ The French spent 130 years in your country and you managed to not learn the proverb that fits you best “Il ne faut pas péter plus haut que son c**”


You said " i AM HERE to fulfill my duty as an Algerian to expose some of the lies spread in this blog.” if you openly hate Morocco and despise it that much, why do you keep showing up here, it is a blog for Moroccans by Moroccans, and, for the record, the only lie we were able to expose so far, is you (this one is specifically for Moroccan Patriot, but since you seem to share the same body…) …

You said “ Nonetheless i still get a big smile whenever i watch that 5-1 in Casa.” You know, we Moroccans, we have so many joyful memories; we don’t need to dig deep for a smile…
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Morcelli
-1 #40 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Morcelli 2011-11-26 10:31
dEAR aLGERIAN,
We in Morocco do not put the Algerian flag in the toilet, read your own news media.

" www.echoroukonline.com/ara/international/87744.html "

Bouteflika should never have supported Qaddafi , now the Algerian people in Libya are suffering from what your generals did.

I rest my case bro. Good luck with finding someone to entertain your backwardness.
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Algerian
0 #41 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Algerian 2011-11-28 01:29
Haras,

Instead of resorting to personal attacks try to sticks to facts:-)
You said" As a matter of fact, we don’t have borders with Spain, as for Sebta and Melilia, there are check points, and they’re not closed…. Why don’t you stick with things you know??? "[/b
Last time a checked septa and Melila were controlled by Spain and unless you have a Spanish permission or visa you are not allowed ion the enclaves, in other words as of 1991 every Moroccan citizens is required to have a Visa, except for some daily workers and the population of Nador...etc. the funny part is that 1991 is the years Spain imposed visa on Moroccans and the same year the Treaty of Friendship and Good Neighbourhood signed was signed as well:-).
So please before try to do your homework, before coming here starting to talk out of %^& !@#.

You said"missed the part where it was OK to smuggle cannabis or other hallucinating drugs (from Algeria to Morocco) through the customs!!! Again, you are just echoing the Generals (s****d) talking points.. In fact the trafficking business went up after the borders were closed, but you know that, you even provided a reference (the text in French) to it "

Your point being??? Again, last time i checked Morocco was still a world leader of drugs production, and lets assume Algerians anre smuggling hallucinating drugs, why is it that your Gov. is begging day and night for the reopening of the borders?? or is it from the goodness of their heart ?

You said"I “appreciate” your honesty, so you recognize that your country’s primary objective is to asphyxiate the Moroccan economy, even if in doing so it harms the Algerian economy or costs it some losses, 2 to 2.2 billion a year to be more precise???

Funny how you keep insisting and claiming that Algeria is LOSING so much from not reopening the borders:-)
What part of NO WE DO NOT WANT TO OPEN THE BORDERS YOU GUYS DONT GET. In 1994, Algeria closed its border with Morocco after being falsely accused of the Marrakech attack, this caused the number of Algerian visitors to fall considerably; there were 70,000 visitors in 1994 and 13,000 in 1995, compared to 1.66 million in 1992, Now you tell me who will benefit the most:-)
Algerians going to Morocco and spending MOney there and subsidized Algerian merchandise that ranges from bread to gas sold to the average Moroccan citizen up to ten times cheaper, just tell me how would Algeria benefit from all that??

you said" the question is why aren’t you our main backers??? You didn’t mind our (help against the same France) when you needed it??? It would be payback for a change?? Just joking, it’s not your nature, as for France, I guess you’ll have to learn to live with it now that they’re in your backyard, you were the main backer of Gaddafi, turns out he was the wrong pick"

Main backers?? is that through the Tangier treaty that made an end to L'emir abdelkader resistance or you are referring to you attacking us just after our independence(19 63) hoping to grab some land??
As for Khadafi, we are still waiting for some evidence or facts that would confirm these baseless accusations, we are still......waiting.



you said" “ Thank you for making the link to the Sahara very clear, Morocco is indeed getting richer and as for France, I’d rather have a rational ally with whom I can have a common interest than a “brother” who’s self-confessed sole priority is to cause me harm…"

Last time i check You gov. was running a deficit of 6% and was having problems paying its foreign debt ($19.6 billion).
As for France, its no longer a rich country my friend and they are facing a possible downgrade of their bonds.

You said"Again, Why don’t you stick with things you know?? Obviously you don’t have a clue, just repeating the same old Algerian crap, go and check the worse memory of Ana Palacio… so now that the before is out of the way, can you enlighten us as what was your government stand during the crisis over the Maadnouss Island? As I recall, the members of your government took turns on camera to show their support for Spain, you just cannot have it both ways, can you?"

Again, we are not going to do your fighting for you, why wold you sit there and watch your gendarmes humiliated by the Spaniards, while the Spanish officials are treated like royalty in Rabat, or why would you sign a friendship treaty, while the other side is still occupying your land?
AS for Il ne faut pas péter plus haut que son c**” you are the perfect illustration of that, because you guys are all talk, try to liberate your land before coming here and talking about how tough you are.
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haras
0 #42 to Algerian and...haras 2011-11-28 04:56
“Last time a checked septa and Melila were controlled by Spain and unless you have a Spanish permission or visa you are not allowed ion the enclaves”
Sebta and Melilia are ours, we don’t have borders with Sebta and Melilia, but since the two enclaves are controlled by Spain they have checkpoints, and they are not closed, you should make a difference between the visa and closing the borders… but that is of no importance to me, after all, you are not Spain…

Your point being??? Again, last time i checked Morocco was still a world leader of drugs production, and lets assume Algerians anre smuggling hallucinating drugs, why is it that your Gov. is begging day and night for the reopening of the borders?? or is it from the goodness of their heart ?
You just don’t get it; you’re the one who brought up the fake reasoning/prete xt that closing the borders will stop the trade of illicit drugs. Nobody is dumb enough, at least on this side of the borders, to believe this reasoning, as a matter of fact the smuggling business is doing just fine …
By the way, the 2 to 2.2 billion dollars loss to Algeria from closing the borders that was by an Algerian Official/Busine ssman, not some double-identity nickname on MoroccoBoard… and I am sure he has the interest of his country at heart more than you... you are free to open or close the borders, but don’t provide dumb reasons, they are for domestic use. As I said before I appreciate the fact that you recognize your country’s primary objective is to asphyxiate the Moroccan economy, end of story…

Algeria closed its borders with Morocco after being falsely accused of the Marrakech attack
Morocco never accused Algeria for the Marrakech attack, but the THUGS who bombed Marrakech on 1994 (SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO) and other minor targets in other cities were of ALGERIAN ORIGIN, and imposing the visa was indeed the safe move at the time, we couldn’t afford some 300,000 of our people killed like sheep. SORRY.

Main backers?? is that through the Tangier treaty that made an end to L'emir abdelkader resistance or you are referring to you attacking us just after our independence(19 63) hoping to grab some land??
As for Khadafi, we are still waiting for some evidence or facts that would confirm these baseless accusations, we are still......wait ing.
The treaty of Tangiers was signed after our cities were bombed by the Franch navy and our people were killed by the tens of thousands, you can go ahead and read about it and about the hundreds of soldiers that were lost during the Isly battle, and you have no shame bringing up this treaty. maybe we had to all die for you to get an attaboy from Algeria, and for what??? you let down l’emir abdelkader way before, how many tribes in Algeria did join his cause??? what is the percentage of your population that sided with him? And, for the record, the emir himself made treaties with France and gave up most of Algeria before the Treaty of Tangiers, but you know all of this….
As for the 1963, if we wanted to grab the land we would have stayed, here is your rout documented on video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80NUp9fKuVU
For Khadafi I have evidence that he was beaten like a pig and humiliated then killed, and that must kill you in the inside…

Last time i check You gov. was running a deficit of 6% and was having problems paying its foreign debt ($19.6 billion). As for France, its no longer a rich country my friend and they are facing a possible downgrade of their bonds.
You need to check the GDP, it is increasing alhamdoulilah and that’s what matters to me, and with the three billion dollars just invested by some real brothers we won’t have problems honoring our debt, and if France is so poor, why were your people asking Chirac for the visa, it wasn’t a Kodak moment for Bouteflika…but then again, it's not a Kodak moment if Boutef is in it

Again, we are not going to do your fighting for you, why wold you sit there and watch your gendarmes humiliated by the Spaniards, while the Spanish officials are treated like royalty in Rabat, or why would you sign a friendship treaty, while the other side is still occupying your land?
Again, if our “gendarmes are been humiliated by the Spaniards” why were your taking turn on camera to show support for the “shameful” Spain?? , and to answer your question, Spanish officials in Morocco are treated just like the British officials are treated in Spain (remember Gibraltar), it might come as news to the Algerian you are, but all problems are not solved by beheading one another…

You didn’t answer my question, you said " i AM HERE to fulfill my duty as an Algerian to expose some of the lies spread in this blog.” if you openly hate Morocco and despise it that much, why do you keep showing up here, it is a blog for Moroccans by Moroccans, and, for the record, the only lie we were able to expose so far, is you (this one is specifically for Moroccan Patriot, but since you seem to share the same body…) …

You are a Moroccan hater, fine by me, but why do you keep showing on MoroccoBoard!!! it's for Moroccans!!!
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Algerian
0 #43 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Algerian 2011-11-28 07:29
Haras,

You said"Sebta and Melilia are ours, we don’t have borders with Sebta and Melilia, but since the two enclaves are controlled by Spain they have checkpoints, and they are not closed, you should make a difference between the visa and closing the borders… but that is of no importance to me, after all, you are not Spain…"
With all due respect, what's important to you is not what we are talking about, In an earlier post you said the following "we don’t have borders with Spain, as for Sebta and Melilia, there are check points, and they’re not closed…." Septa and Melila are(currently) part of Spain there are borders and unless you have a visa, work permit or you live in the the Nador region you are not allowed in.
So again, try to do some research before talking out $% TUYU A#$.

You said"You just don’t get it; you’re the one who brought up the fake reasoning/prete xt that closing the borders will stop the trade of illicit drugs. Nobody is dumb enough, at least on this side of the borders, to believe this reasoning, as a matter of fact the smuggling business is doing just fine …
By the way, the 2 to 2.2 billion dollars loss to Algeria from closing the borders that was by an Algerian Official/Busine ssman, not some double-identity nickname on MoroccoBoard… and I am sure he has the interest of his country at heart more than you... you are free to open or close the borders, but don’t provide dumb reasons, they are for domestic use."


I have already explained to you with facts and numbers why Algerian would not benefit from the reopening of the border and the only answer i get back from you is so called " research" saying that Algeria is losing 2 billions a year, please explain to me how Algeria would benefit from such move. Let's assume Algeria would gain 10 billion a year from such move, but the fact and the matter is that we, the Algerians keep saying NO, nO AND No, don't your leader have any shame or dignity what part of no don't you guys get?.

You said"Morocco never accused Algeria for the Marrakech attack, but the THUGS who bombed Marrakech on 1994 (SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO) and other minor targets in other cities were of ALGERIAN ORIGIN, and imposing the visa was indeed the safe move at the time, we couldn’t afford some 300,000 of our people killed like sheep. SORRY. "

I totally agree with you, Morocco is a free and sovereign state and if it thought that imposing a visa on Algerians is on its best interest, so be it, but you have to also know that Algeria is a sovereign state as well and if it thinks that keeping the borders closed will be in its best interest , guess what? the border will remain closed.
So let me get your point straight, so you guys decided to impose visas and chase the Algerians out because you couldn't afford to have 300,000 moroccan killed like sheep right?? so what is making you change your mind, if you were brave enough to impose visa, you should be brave enough to bare the consequences. according to your analogy you imposed the visa to save the moroccans from the Algerian savages right?? so guess what my friend, the same savages, don't want the borders re-openened, so please have some shame and ask your leaders to stop begging.

You said"The treaty of Tangiers was signed after our cities were bombed by the Franch navy and our people were killed by the tens of thousands, you can go ahead and read about it and about the hundreds of soldiers that were lost during the Isly battle, and you have no shame bringing up this treaty. maybe we had to all die for you to get an attaboy from Algeria, and for what??? you let down l’emir abdelkader way before, how many tribes in Algeria did join his cause??? what is the percentage of your population that sided with him? And, for the record, the emir himself made treaties with France and gave up most of Algeria before the Treaty of Tangiers, but you know all of this….
As for the 1963, if we wanted to grab the land we would have stayed, here is your rout documented on video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80NUp9fKuVU
For Khadafi I have evidence that he was beaten like a pig and humiliated then killed, and that must kill you in the inside… "

Lets start with the sand war of 1963, when our Moroccan brothers thought that they can grab some land, since Algeria did not have an army yet, i like the clip you posted with the title "La Défaite Cuisante de l'Algérie pendant la Guerre des Sables contre le Maroc" lets do a fact check , Morocco started that war to get Tlemcen, Bechar and Tindouf and by the end of the war, did Morocco get a single inch of Algerian land, the answer is NO.
On the other hand, i have a clip where Hassan 2 admits that the Algerian troops are in control of FIGUIG( Morocco land)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuXJSZohfDU

starting at 1:17.

As for Our fight against the French, we fought the French and we defeated them and every inch of our land is under our control, compare that to Perjil island episode and let me know.

I was no fan of Khadafi, and you enjoying the way he was killed says a lot about you. Yes, i was hurt by the way a prisoner was treated, killed and his body exposed for days, Islam forbid such things, have you ever heard of a court of law? a trial? and if found guilty, to be punished?
i am still waiting for a single evidence linking Algeria to Khadafi، and since you are such a fan of the rebels here is a clip showing them how they treat Moroccans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB3jUHqpnnw

you said "You need to check the GDP, it is increasing alhamdoulilah and that’s what matters to me, and with the three billion dollars just invested by some real brothers we won’t have problems honoring our debt, and if France is so poor, why were your people asking Chirac for the visa, it wasn’t a Kodak moment for Bouteflika…but then again, it's not a Kodak moment if Boutef is in it "

Glad to hear you telling us from the comfort of your home somewhere in N. America that the Moroccan economy is good:-)
As for Chirak and the Visa, its as the MOroccans don't have the same problems or even worst, and you can refer to the quality of life index published by the UN.

You said"Again, if our “gendarmes are been humiliated by the Spaniards” why were your taking turn on camera to show support for the “shameful” Spain?? , and to answer your question, Spanish officials in Morocco are treated just like the British officials are treated in Spain (remember Gibraltar), it might come as news to the Algerian you are, but all problems are not solved by beheading one another… "

Well, yes, a million and half Algerian died to get our independence but at the end of the day every inch of our land is under our control, lets hope and pray that Spain will feel bad for you one day and give you back your land.

you said"if you openly hate Morocco and despise it that much, why do you keep showing up here, it is a blog for Moroccans by Moroccans, and, for the record, the only lie we were able to expose so far, is you (this one is specifically for Moroccan Patriot, but since you seem to share the same body…) …

You are a Moroccan hater, fine by me, but why do you keep showing on MoroccoBoard!!! it's for Moroccans!!"

I am only here to expose your lies and to mop the floor with your 1st grade arguments.
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haras
0 #44 Errataharas 2011-11-28 22:09
Regarding Sebta and Melilia, you come here to tell us that they are ours, yet your government hints in a different direction, and the two enclaves are indeed under the control of Spain, that doesn’t make their limits borders (a word with a clear political meaning), at least from the stand of view of Morocco and other countries who side with us. As I said before, you can’t have it both ways…

2.2 bilion dollars loss to Algeria is the ONLY RELEVANT STATISTIC on the economic consequence of closing the borders, it eats you that it stems from an Algerian study… now if you think that closing the borders is a political and sovereign decision, you need to ACT ACCORDINGLY, and stop bringing up laughable economic justifications, make sure your friend Moroccan patriot doesn’t bring up the issue again and better yet, ask him to leave this forum, along with yourself… GET OUT, DON’T YOU HAVE SOME DIGNITY???

You like to talk so much about the Guerre des Sables, unfortunately, I have no news for you, even with the help of Syrians and Egyptians (remember Housni Moubarak), you lost it, I won’t send you any commentaries by Ben Bella, Hassan II or anyone else, nothing but the raw truth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80NUp9fKuVU


But don’t let the images fool you, You lost more on that war than what you’ll ever imagine, the defeat prepared the Algerian people for the takeover by Ben Bella of the revolution council and allowed Boumedian in the den, then Boumedian made his putsch and placed the DAF generals at the top of the military and the country, the emblematic figures of the revolution became persona non grata in the country they led to freedom, Ben Bella was assigned to residence, Boudiaf in Morocco, and Ait Ahmed in FRANCE… others were hunted down in Europe (Krim and Lkhider). The ultimate step came in the last seventies when Boumedian was poisoned by a mysterious poison (you still don’t know by whom), and the final step was on the nineties, when the DAF generals took over, they dismissed one president and murdered another GREAT president, “while you sat and watched in front of your TVs”, then they brought the puppet-midget president you have now…

Long story short, on 1963 you didn’t lose any part of your lands, which Morocco had no intention to take from you, you lost your revolution, and all the things that the 1.5 million moujahidines gave their lives for, (France only lost 27,000 soldiers during the events of Algeria) and all you got is the DAF generals running your country and a couple of days “sejour” in Figuig…. Needless to say that it was your side that started the hostilities…
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Algerian
0 #45 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria Algerian 2011-11-29 01:03
Haras,

Yu said"Regarding Sebta and Melilia, you come here to tell us that they are ours, yet your government hints in a different direction, and the two enclaves are indeed under the control of Spain, that doesn’t make their limits borders (a word with a clear political meaning), at least from the stand of view of Morocco and other countries who side with us. As I said before, you can’t have it both ways… "
SEPTA Melila and the rest are your lands, and i am not going to tell you what to do to get them back, just don't expect me to support you and speak up for you, when you sit there and watch the Spaniards humiliate you.

You said"2.2 bilion dollars loss to Algeria is the ONLY RELEVANT STATISTIC on the economic consequence of closing the borders, it eats you that it stems from an Algerian study… now if you think that closing the borders is a political and sovereign decision, you need to ACT ACCORDINGLY, and stop bringing up laughable economic justifications, make sure your friend Moroccan patriot doesn’t bring up the issue again and better yet, ask him to leave this forum, along with yourself… GET OUT, DON’T YOU HAVE SOME DIGNITY???"

Again, i dared you to tell me how Algeria would benefit from the reopening of the borders and all what i get in return is study, study and more study and bla bla.
i wrote two paragraph detailing how Morocco would benefit from such move and when i asked you to do the same........ all what i got is more bla bla.

As for the 1963 war, why would Algeria that just got its independence attack Morocco?? On the other hand, Morocco was eying Tinduf, Bechar and Tlemcen and up till now some segments of the Moroccan political arena still claim that part of Algeria belong to Morocco.
Again, even though, we had no regular Army no institution.... etc. we still managed to stop you from getting an inch of our territory, just be carereful because next time around we won't stop at Figig.


As for you mocking the Algerian martyrs, and the claim that France did not lost must:-)
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bartoz
0 #46 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria bartoz 2011-11-29 02:38
Just want to let you know that we beat you again 1-0 and we are off to the Olympics, you should now beg us to beat senegal so you'll have a chance to join us. 123 viva l'algerie.
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haras
0 #47 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria haras 2011-11-29 04:59
Regarding Sebta and Melilia, I appreciate your position, that doesn’t exonerate your government, and for the record, I didn’t even bring the issue… you did


You said:"Again, i dared you to tell me how Algeria would benefit from the reopening of the borders and all what i get in return is study, study and more study and bla bla.
i wrote two paragraph detailing how Morocco would benefit from such move and when i asked you to do the same........ all what i got is more bla bla."

Next time try and do some reading before coming here to vomit the nonsense straight from Algerian newspapers, as I said, it’s for domestic use:
http://www.iie.com/publications/briefs/maghreb.pdf
If you still support closing the borders it’s your call, it is your sovereign decision, do with it whatever you want, just don’t try to convince us that it is the economic sound decision, it is not, it is a political decision, and you’ll live to see it is a bad one, and I agree…
And, at the risk of repeating myself, if you support the closure of borders, why are you here???


You said "As for the 1963 war, why would Algeria that just got its independence attack Morocco?? You said: On the other hand, Morocco was eying Tinduf, Bechar and Tlemcen and up till now some segments of the Moroccan political arena still claim that part of Algeria belong to Morocco.
Again, even though, we had no regular Army no institution.... etc. we still managed to stop you from getting an inch of our territory, just be carereful because next time around we won't stop at Figig. "

Your guys started the war, part of a filthy plot, to take over the country, the guys you seem to trust blindly, are the same THUGS that threw the bodies of Amirouch and El Houass in a military casern, the same people who allowed France to continue its nuclear tests in your country, and didn’t take a single undertaking to protect or warn the people… as for the next time, you mean when you’re done with the GIA/DRS? That’ll take some time if educated people like you are sold on the tale…
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haras
0 #48 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Qatar Chastises Algeria for defending Assad in Syria haras 2011-11-29 05:04
For the game, you got it wrong, Morocco won, and you don't have to beg us...
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Ali baba
0 #49 djbell1255@aol.comAli baba 2013-08-18 16:04
You sound like an Israeli news paper.Algeria has a different historical back ground than the rest of the Arab trators including Morocco.So based of that history of struggle against foreign colonialism it is obvious that the Algerians will deffer a lot than their so called Arab brothers whose history is Protectionism and not colonialism. Learn something my friend Algerians don`t form prostetutes for white foreign comsumption.
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Ali baba
0 #50 djbell1255@aol.comAli baba 2013-08-18 16:16
You know what,Algeria never have a problem with Tunisia.Do you know why ? Because Tunisia is an independant country where as Morocco is not.Morocco belong to europeans,the French and the British because they are protected by Morocan law to have as many kids as they want without being even exposed. Winston Churchill whose mother was a whore loves Marakesh.Do you know why because as I told you. They can not find as many kids or cheap women as in Morocco. Just take care of your country and try to better your people`s condition and don`t let unfounded hate blind your good judjement. We are the wrong enemy that you are wasting your energy on !
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Foxy
0 #51 AFoxy 2013-09-01 08:00
I'm no politician nor a diplomat, here is an old saying for all Arab leaders " you live by the sword and you die by the sword"

Be under no elusion all Arab leaders are not naturally born leaders, they are man made, that's why they and their cronies behave in a savage fashion.

The west spent more than half a century creating monsters across the MENA region whilst achieving their goals and objectives with no care in the world what the future hold for those powerless citizens living under the prefabricated systems and monsters...

However, the current situation across the Arab world is temporary and this is why "the Arabs can't read, if they can read there is no guaranty they will understand and if they do understand they rarely remember" these characteristics are contrary to naturally born leaders, deliberately hand picked by the west to facilitate business strategy.

All Arab leadres and their cronies will remain mentally retarded with no substance and vision for self or others and that's why they are imploding one by one, if were you just sit back and watch the relevant episode of the series.
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