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| Religion is Personal |
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| JILLIAN C. YORK | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 I covered the efforts of the Mouvement Alternatif pour les Libertés Individuelles a new Moroccan activist group that recently made headlines for eating in public during Ramadan. In effect, they broke the law; Article 222 of the Moroccan Penal Code stipulates that a Muslim who openly breaks the fast in public during Ramadan can be punished by one to six months’ imprisonment and a fine. This is not the first time someone has been arrested – in past years, non-fasters have been arrested and made scapegoats by local police – but it is certainly the first time in recent history that a group has set out to protest the law.
A little legal background is in order – although Morocco is a Muslim country in many senses of the term, its There is, of course, a great portion of Moroccan society that follows the guidelines of Islam closely and neither drinks nor breaks any other rules (whether outlined in the letter of the law or not). Right off the bat, I’ll say this: they’re not my concern. What concerns me is this: There is also a great portion of society that drinks, and does other things that are haram, but are condemning the protesters for disrespecting Islam. This attitude brings to light something I noticed in Morocco: That Ramadan seems to make everyone an expert on Islam, and a great Muslim. Many of those who might ignore religion throughout the year will at the very least fast (or give the illusion of fasting, even to their own families), often taking it further, lecturing their friends who don’t pray or chastising them for not making it to the mosque. Lest you think I’m exaggerating, I’ve witnessed this myself numerous times. In August, I’d be clubbing in Marrakesh with Moroccan friends, drinking and dancing; as soon as Ramadan started, I was the black sheep. To clarify, I’m not judging people for their level of piety, rather, I’m peeved at their hypocrisy. Of course, the bigger problem is with the law. Laws against publicly eating during Ramadan only apply to Morocco’s
Most of the blog posts and comments I’ve seen from Moroccans and Moroccophiles on this subject support the legal action being taken against the protesters. The comments on Global Voices, however, tended in the other direction, and tend to be closer to my own position on the matter, which is that religion is One comment to that effect which caught my eye is from Rachid, who says:
That is precisely the point. No matter what Islamists might want, Morocco is, for all intents and purposes, a secular-leaning country. Whatever the ideal might be (and I don’t believe theocracy is it), Morocco is what it is, and nothing is going to stop the tide of secularism. And while there are certainly valid arguments against aspects of western influence, to me, this isn’t one of them. Moreover, the protesters in this case are not, in fact, advocating for everyone to run outside and eat publicly during Ramadan. To do so would be disrespectful and is something that even most tourists shy away from. What they are advocating for is in fact a noble cause: an end to the hypocrisy, a change in the law, and a step forward for personal freedoms.
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theresag
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... Fasting is bad for you? Hmm.. I've never heard that one before. For the general population it's NOT a bad thing. For me, however, it is and as an insulin diabetic, not something I can do. I refuse to get into a battle about Moroccan law. As far as I am concerned, you should abide by the laws of the country you are in, whether you are a visitor or a resident. Because of my health I am forced to eat when and where ever I need to. But, if I knew it was against the law where ever I may be to eat in public during certain times, I'd find a way to manage. |
Good riddance
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... L'Association marocaine des droits de l'Homme (AMDH, indépendante) a affirmé lundi à Rabat être "sans nouvelles" depuis jeudi d'une journaliste franco-marocaine soupçonnée d'être l'organisatrice d'une tentative de manifestation de "non-jeûneurs" durant le ramadan au Maroc. "Zineb El-Rhazoui ne s'est pas manifestée depuis jeudi dernier et sa famille affirme elle aussi n'avoir plus de nouvelles d'elle", a déclaré à l'AFP la présidente de l'AMDH, Khadija Ryadi. |
Andreas papandreau.
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... I think Ramadan should be reformed. Moroccans are mhawshin during Ramadan. They eat too much, spend too much, credit too much. I have yet to see a happy face during the fasting hours. Ramadan should not be about food, it should be about how we can help each other to be better human beings. Instead, everyone is thinking about shHiwat. I do agree with those young people who are challenging the hypocrite system. By the way, I do fast during Ramadan, and I enjoyed every minute of it, I even managed to lose few pounds. Nothing like anfalusian music during iftar. |
Thank you Paul Rawlings
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... Thank Mr Paul for shedding light on this Moroccan epidemy. Everyone in Morocco, has at least one family member who suffers from diabetes needlessly, because of their binging diets. Ramadan is good for people who are reasonable, Moroccans are not, In Ramadan, they eat like there is no tomorrow and everyone i know gain weight and get sick right after iftar. They eat 3 meals in about 8 hours. Can you believe what does this to the body human soul. Ramadan is about finding god not feasting with food, calories and fat. Thank you again. In just six years (between 2000 and 2006) the prevalence of diabetes in Morocco has shot up from 6.6% to 10%, according to Diabetes’ Voice, the publication of the International Diabetes Federation September, 2006 report (Vol. 51, Issue 3). The report says that levels of obesity continue to rise in urban populations, where 40% of women were obese in the year 2000. The International Diabetes Foundation feels that these figures are likely to represent “the tip of the iceberg.” The report quotes two Moroccan diabetologists in Tétouan, Loukoch Nahid, and Kerbab |
Paul Rawlings
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... Ash lah, Fasting is not good for you. period. It causes dehydration. Dehydration can be lethal. Fasting with option to drink can be good. Ramadan fasting however can be damaging. Most of people gain weight that they can never get rid of the access fat that they accumulate eating in the middle of the night and in the wee wee hours of the morning. Ramadan people gorge on carbohydrates by te way , are you aware that Morocco is the country that has the most diabetic in the planet after Somoa? 10% of Moroccans are diabetics and that is killing the Moroccan economy. To make easier for you to understand, People spend money on medication instead on spending on things to better themselves like buying books for their children. Any reasonable Moroccan would agree. |
Ash-lah
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... Mr Paul, You must be a poor researcher.. a quick Google search led me to many articles amongst which I choose to share with you the one below because I find it scientifically balanced : The Health Benefits of Fasting BY Will Carroll There has been much contention in the scientific field about whether or not fasting is beneficial to one's health. Fasting is an integral part of many of the major religions including Islam, Judaism and Christianity. Many are dubious as to whether the physiological effects are as beneficial as the spiritual promoted by these religions. There is a significant community of alternative healers who believe that fasting can do wonders for the human body. This paper will look at the arguments presented by these healers in an attempt to raise awareness of the possible physiological benefits that may result from fasting. Fasting technically commences within the first twelve to twenty-four hours of the fast. A fast does not chemically begin until the carbohydrate stores in the body begin to be used as an energy source. The fast will continue as long as fat and carbohydrate stores are used for energy, as opposed to protein stores. Once protein stores begin to be depleted for energy (resulting in loss of muscle mass) a person is technically starving. (1) The benefits of fasting must be preceded by a look at the body's progression when deprived of food. Due to the lack of incoming energy, the body must turn to its own resources, a function called autolysis. (2) Autolysis is the breaking down of fat stores in the body in order to produce energy. The liver is in charge of converting the fats into a chemical called a ketone body, "the metabolic substances acetoacetic acid and beta-hydroxybutyric acid" (3), and then distributing these bodies throughout the body via the blood stream. "When this fat utilization occurs, free fatty acids are released into the blood stream and are used by the liver for energy." (3) The less one eats, the more the body turns to these stored fats and creates these ketone bodies, the accumulation of which is referred to as ketosis. (4) Detoxification is the foremost argument presented by advocates of fasting. "Detoxification is a normal body process of eliminating or neutralizing toxins through the colon, liver, kidneys, lungs, lymph glands, and skin." (5). This process is precipitated by fasting because when food is no longer entering the body, the body turns to fat reserves for energy. "Human fat is valued at 3,500 calories per pound," a number that would lead one to believe that surviving on one pound of fat every day would provide a body with enough energy to function normally. (2) These fat reserves were created when excess glucose and carbohydrates were not used for energy or growth, not excreted, and therefore converted into fat. When the fat reserves are used for energy during a fast, it releases the chemicals from the fatty acids into the system which are then eliminated through the aforementioned organs. Chemicals not found in food but absorbed from one's environment, such as DDT, are also stored in fat reserves that may be released during a fast. One fasting advocate tested his own urine, feces and sweat during an extended fast and found traces of DDT in each. (5) A second prescribed benefit of fasting is the healing process that begins in the body during a fast. During a fast energy is diverted away from the digestive system due to its lack of use and towards the metabolism and immune system. (6) The healing process during a fast is precipitated by the body's search for energy sources. Abnormal growths within the body, tumors and the like, do not have the full support of the body's supplies and therefore are more susceptible to autolysis. Furthermore, "production of protein for replacement of damaged cells (protein synthesis) occurs more efficiently because fewer 'mistakes' are made by the DNA/RNA genetic controls which govern this process." A higher efficiency in protein synthesis results in healthier cells, tissues and organs. (7) This is one reason that animals stop eating when they are wounded, and why humans lose hunger during influenza. Hunger has been proven absent in illnesses such as gastritis, tonsillitis and colds. (2) Therefore, when one is fasting, the person is consciously diverting energy from the digestive system to the immune system. In addition, there is a reduction in core body temperature. This is a direct result of the slower metabolic rate and general bodily functions. Following a drop in blood sugar level and using the reserves of glucose found in liver glycogen, the basal metabolic rate (BMR) is reduced in order to conserve as much energy within the body as can be provided. (2) Growth hormones are also released during a fast, due to the greater efficiency in hormone production. (7) Finally, the most scientifically proven advantage to fasting is the feeling of rejuvenation and extended life expectancy. Part of this phenomenon is caused by a number of the benefits mentioned above. A slower metabolic rate, more efficient protein production, an improved immune system, and the increased production of hormones contributes to this long-term benefit of fasting. In addition to the Human Growth Hormone that is released more frequently during a fast, an anti-aging hormone is also produced more efficiently. (7) "The only reliable way to extend the lifespan of a mammal is under-nutrition without malnutrition." (5) A study was performed on earthworms that demonstrated the extension of life due to fasting. The experiment was performed in the 1930s by isolating one worm and putting it on a cycle of fasting and feeding. The isolated worm outlasted its relatives by 19 generations, while still maintaining its youthful physiological traits. The worm was able to survive on its own tissue for months. Once the size of the worm began to decrease, the scientists would resume feeding it at which point it showed great vigor and energy. "The life-span extension of these worms was the equivalent of keeping a man alive for 600 to 700 years." (8) In conclusion, it seems that there are many reasons to consider fasting as a benefit to one's health. The body rids itself of the toxins that have built up in our fat stores throughout the years. The body heals itself, repairs all the damaged organs during a fast. And finally there is good evidence to show that regulated fasting contributes to longer life. However, many doctors warn against fasting for extended periods of time without supervision. There are still many doctors today who deny all of these points and claim that fasting is detrimental to one's health and have evidence to back their statements. The idea of depriving a body of what society has come to view as so essential to our survival in order to heal continues to be a topic of controversy. |
Bsila
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Morocco board in the news a source for LA times. Good hun? http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...ution.html Moroccan authorities are expected to prosecute a group arrested for organizing a forest picnic to protest a law that forbids Muslims from eating publicly during Ramadan fasting hours, media reports say. Members of the Moroccan Alternative Movement for Individual Freedoms (MALI) had planned to hold the picnic on Sept. 13 in the woods near the town of Mohammedia, between the Moroccan capital Rabat and Casablanca. Word of the picnic was spread through a page on the social networking site Facebook. But as would-be picnickers arrived at the train station in Mohammedia, they were met by a large police squad that searched them and took the names and phone numbers of some of them, according to a statement issued by Human Rights Watch. The Morocco Board News Service website carried a report saying said that more than 100 police officers, riot police and military personnel had "besieged" the train stations and nearby areas. The report said that 70 people had planned to attend the picnic but that only a dozen managed to get around the security presence. After the police encounter, the picnickers were forced back onto trains out of Mohammedia. According to HRW, Morocco’s state-run news agency, Maghreb Arabe Presse (MAP) issued a report on the “protest picnic” on Sept. 14, saying that local authorities and security services had stopped the event and that the promoters of the event would face prosecution. Although no formal charges appear to have been filed against any of the organizers as of yet, the MAP report said that six Moroccan promoters of the picnic would be prosecuted. Police began making arrests on Sept. 15, according to HRW, detaining students Abderrahim Mouktafi and Ghassan Bouyaghrouni in their hometowns of Casablanca and Kenitra. The same day, police also paid a visit to the Casablanca home of journalist Zeineb el-Rhazoui, another would-be participant. She was apparently the only one out of the six picnic promoters named in the MAP report. El-Rhazaoui, who was not home at the time of the police visit, has received death threats on her Facebook page, and her whereabouts are currently unknown, HRW said. The forest picnic was to be a protest against Article 222 of the Moroccan penal code, which stipulates that: “A person commonly known to be Muslim who violates the fast in a public place during Ramadan, without having one of the justifications allowed by Islam, shall be punished by one to six months of prison” and a fine. The law exempts non-Muslims. The government-run news agency published on Sept. 15 a statement by the Mohammedia provincial council of Islamist scholars, the Oulema, condemning this “odious” act by “agitators” that “defies the teachings of God and the Prophet as well as the severe punishment that is its consequence.” The story has also been up for discussion and debate in the Moroccan blogosphere. In a post on the international blog community Global Voices entitled "Rage Against the Sandwich Continues," blogger Hisham summarized reactions from Moroccan bloggers this way: "The story sparked a passionate, often heated and at times offensive and polarizing debate in the Moroccan blogosphere and on social networks. Whilst the majority seems to be rejecting the non-observants' action, some have raised the question of freedom of conscience in a Muslim society." MALI, meanwhile, emphasized in a statement that it did not seek to “provoke any community” and that the group is not “against Islam.” It’s goal, the group said, is to put focus on the contradictions between international law and Moroccan laws that “undermine individual freedoms.” HRW has called on the Moroccan authorities to drop "all proceedings" against the group. Morocco is not the first country to arrest non-fasters during this year's Ramadan. Egyptian media reported earlier this month that 155 people in the city of Aswan had been arrested for failing to fast during daylight hours in Ramadan. |
brika
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... 90% wait for Ramadan to cleanse their spirit even though not as prescribed by the mullahs. then you have 6 people who want to take this opportunity for the millions of people who chose to fast. |
Paul Rawlings
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... Fasting is not healthy, those who fast are ignorant. Every medical research I have read points to the facts that Fasting is bad for you. |
Secular Sahrawi
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Morocco=Ambiguity Dear Jillian, The Kingdom is a place where the ambiguity of laws is the real king. Moroccans are Muslims and at the same time we do not enforce any Muslim laws. We are Arabs while we do not speak Arabic. We are Africans when we do not belong to the African Union. We are pro-western while we fight fiercely all kind of westernization of Moroccan culture. The king is Amir Al Mouminine but does not issue Islamic Fatwas (he's more into business and daily political grind). While we pray for Palestinians, we extend our hand secretly to Israel (>400,000 Moroccan Jews live in Israel). While we oppress religious political parties, we encourage building of mosques and official indoctrination of the people through Al Madhab Al Maliki. And finally, while we pretend we're fasting in public, we DO EAT and DRINK in private during the daytime in Ramadan...[fi almaghrib, la tastaghrib = In Morocco, nothing is surprising] |
Jillian C. York
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To those who criticize my piece... ...I wrote this piece for my personal blog; Morocco Board has permission to publish anything I write (as given expressly via email) and they chose to publish this one. I did not submit it for you to read. There are numerous sides to this debate, and I am not trying to change anything in Morocco - I am reporting my opinion on something that Moroccans tried to change in Morocco, and if you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you. |
Marjane
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... In an earlier reaction to the article about Moroccan non-fasters, I wrote the following: "Hey guys, there are non-Muslims in Morocco and even atheists. The Moroccan law talks about freedom of faith for every individual. But who decides that an individual is Muslim or not? No indication in legal papers says that a Moroccan is indeed Muslim. It's up to every one to decide for themselves." I totally agree with JILLIAN C. YORK that we (Moroccans) are supposed to be Muslims when in fact we're not given the chance to choose to be or not be Muslim. If we follow the law to its logical end, as long as nothing on our official papers says that we are indeed Muslims, there should be no prosecution for people who do not abide by the Islamic law. Once I witnessed the following in a court of justice: the owner of a liquor store was accused of having sold alcohol to a Muslim and the guy replied to the judge, very simply, that he wouldn't have done this if he'd known the guy was Muslim. He added that since the customer was buying alcohol, then he concluded that he wasn't Muslim. The people in the court room were all laughing, including the judge, but in the end he was declared guilty, was fined and was denied the license to sell alcohol anymore. One more note: the law that forbids selling alcohol to Muslims dates back to the French protectorate (the twenties of last century) and it was meant to reassure Muslims that the stores were just for Europeans living for morocco. |
dump u dont and dump f u dont
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... Ok come on u guys, so because u friend respect their religion during Ramadan is some think bad that u want to change, give me a break. You know what that called in plain language "respect" and why an outsider wants to go to Morocco and change the law???? Do muslim in USA intervine with the Christien people and that people who practice Good Friday are bad poeple because they don't go to church every Sunday!!!!! If u are Moroccan u should respect u fellow citzen even if u don't practice Ramadan then eat at u house during the day, forget freedom just pay them respect. For all the outsider mind u own business and give Morocco and its own people respect, if u want to make changes go do that in Saudi and see what will happen to ya. |
Casawi
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... Mormons in the US will tell you how much religious persecution they have suffered and still do to this very day (ban on polygamy for instance). France goes after what they consider "religious cults" (Scientology which is still battling French courts today) and criminalizes a number of them. In the US well, today being openly a Muslim is enough to cause you trouble (every other week, a mosque or some Islamic center is vandalized). It has become worse than a Mormon (often ridiculed in popular culture). "Freedom of religion" like "Freedom of Speech" are all slogans and can not be used to undermine the will of the people. It is the people who decide what that ought to be. |
Casawi
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... This has nothing to do with individual freedom but it has to do with the laws governing our public space. Moroccan laws DO NOT force anybody to fast or to pray. Let us be clear on this and let's not turn this into yet another neo-colonialist crusade to "civilize" the "uncivilized". Moroccan laws like in any other countries (including the USA from which the author hails and which is known for its many regulations on public behavior) regulate the public sphere and the way it is done is based on our understanding of what is decent and what it is not. As far as I know, neither the US nor Europe look onto us to decide on their decency laws. Most US states continue to enforce the blue laws on Sundays. There are so many local laws in US counties that enforce religious (Christian) morality that at times one would think they are in Saudi Arabia. Just think of abortion. The issue is debated among president candidates and yet we are not allowed to debate our own traditions or what makes us comfortable and what doesn't (we must get an approval from foreign countries). There is no hypocrisy here. The Moroccan government, and RIGHTLY SO, shows flexibility in enforcing certain laws and ignoring others based on the general feeling/tendencies of the population. It was Hassan II, for right or wrong, who explained why it was necessary to enforce the law in Ramadan when Bourgiba in Tunisia stated otherwise. Decades later, Moroccans have become accustomed to this and it has become an issue of decency and not so much of religion. Foreigners do not seem to get this the same way we don't get why it is not OK to swear in public TV and while it is OK to show extreme violence, death and destruction. The issue of eating in Ramadan has been taken by many groups in the past (the Marxist (al-qa3idiyoun) groups in Moroccan universities, or evil commies as people in the US would say) but it has not caused any uproar in our society. Why? It is because these groups, mostly students, came from the poor, not from the aristocracy that parades itself for foreign newspapers and who do not even know what most Moroccans actually want. Many Moroccans struggle to make their living to feed their kids and Ramadan is one of the few months where we can all feel what the majority feels, yet these brats from the aristocracy want to rub it in their faces with their sandwiches (au fromage President that cost more than what these people make for the whole day) in Mohammedia (note the name of the city they picked). Now if the aristocracy has a problem with the "uncivilized laws" (as they perceive them) of Morocco, they can go to courts and challenge them. The laws are supposed to be made by people for the people and if the people wants religious morality in them then SO BE IT. I am an atheist and I would support them. If these laws hurt people, then people will change them. To assume that only westerners understand suffering is an assumption that is racist, neo-colonialist and orientalist. MALI should understand that there is virtually no support for it in Morocco and that the law is not on its side either. If they think they can have foreign media impose on Moroccans what they do not want, then they must know that they are promoting a form of authoritarianism, not democracy. |
Moroccan Patriot
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Moroccan laws make Morocco look Hypocritical and anti Islamic AND anti Democracy "I can care less if People want to eat or fast, the point here is respecting the majority's belief" I am not attacking the person who made this statement. I am just using it to show how ignorance is ingrained in the Moroccan Education system. The same person making this statement is offended when The Majority in France do not want Muslims to wear headscarves in School, or the majority in the Netherlands do not want to allow any more Muslims to immigrate there.... or the majority of Russians think the only good muslim is a dead muslim... Respecting the Majority belief is the antithesis of a forward moving society. In a forward moving society, the beliefs of the minority are protected by the government from the hostility of the majority. Successfull nations are wealthy because they have policies that protect those with unpopular views from the attacks of the majority who may disagree with them. Freedom of choice is a key part of Islam. The individual, not the State decides whether to adhere to the laws of Islam. Under Shariah law, there is no real penalty for drinking alcohol in Public, rather the penalty comes from slandering others while inebriated... it is the same principal of driving drunk.... You have to either believe in the law or believe in God... one does not exclude the other Laws should be passed in order to protect society. If the laws are passed, they must cover everyone. No one can be expempted from the laws. If you are in the US and there is a law against having more than one wife, you better believe that Muslims are not going to get a pass on the law simply because the US wants to increase tourism revenues. If it is illegal for Muslims to Consume, sell or Buy Alchol, then it should be illegal for everyone else to buy, sell or consume alcohol in Morocco. The other alternative would be to make it legal, on the books, as in the legislature needs to repeal the laws making consumption of alcohol by muslims in Morocco illegal. If they are worried about being called bad muslims, they should just remind the rest of the world that Morocco is a secular nation. On the other hand, saying that All people should be prohibited from Drinking alcohol would be ok too, as then Morocco could say that it was a muslim nation. When you legally prohibit all Muslims from Buying Alcohol, yet you watch millions of Moroccans buy Alcohol from Supermarkets in plain view of Policemen, and you watch Moroccans file into and out of bars to get their drink on, while the law expressly prohibits Muslims from consuming alcoholic beverages, Morocco instead becomes known as a hypocritical nation, where the rule of law has no value and People should avoid investing in at all costs. The following Apartheid Laws must be repealed in Morocco: 1. Law against alcohol consumption in Morocco 2. Law against breaking the fast in Morocco 3. Law against sharing hotel rooms in Morocco These above laws are apartheid Laws. Either these laws should be put in place for ALL people in Morocco, or they should be repealed. Imagine going to France and finding out smoking Hashish is against the law for French people but all Muslims are allowed by law to smoke hash and buy it whenever they wanted Imagine going to the United States and finding out that it is illegal for Americans to marry more than one woman, yet all Muslims are allowed to marry 4 wives. Imagine going to the Vatican and finding out that all Christians had to go to school, but all Muslims could skip school whenever they wanted and still get a degree!!! Apartheid Israel is not the only apartheid State. End Hypocricy now!!! |
What
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EL COCO Whoever wants to eat during Ramadan can and should be able to do so. Religion should be forced on people. Many moroccans drink and eat during Ramadan but they do it at their homes.. May as well let them do it outside to stimulate the economy |
New York
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... Mounire, Exactly, Allah al watan al malik. What this so called freedom loving want you to do is be a photocopy of the Western country. They want you to believe that disrespecting millions of people in the name of democracy is OK. As far as I know, In a democracy , the majority rules. Why these so called freedom lover democrats want to change the rules. In the US, people who want to swim naked to go to the nude beach, if they go to a regular beach, they will get arrested. In Morocco if someone want to eat during fasting hours, they can do it in the tranquility of their home, if they do it outside they will get arrested. Lalla YORK, you want attention to your post, then you got it. I personally think that that your writing could have more substance by NOT copying and pasting other people blog content. Too much copying and pasting is at best lazy if not unethical. As you know in copyright laws, we need to ask permission before copying and pasting. |
With MALI!
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A true democracy garanties rights to minorities ALSO :) Many Moroccans abroad and in Morocco complain about the lack of democracy, tolerance and religious freedom towards them. Unfortunately when it comes to the other side they don't get it. They assume that THEY are the only ones who understand EVERYTHING about religion and leave no room for a healthy and democratic debate about any question that might be raised by the other side (moslem or non moslem.) We can't live in a frozen time and ignore most, if not all, the social, political and scientific progress that have been made throughout centuries because any type of questioning or change is distabilizing. That only shows insecurities about our own faith. Time has come for all of us to examine ourselves and deal with our contradictions if we want to built a true democratic country that embraces ALL of its citizens and their views and gives the means to ALL to live in peace, harmony, and MUTUAL respect. Dictatorships (political or religious) are a thing of the past and those still functioning now don't have a long time to go because there is no force anymore that can stop universal education and true democracy. Thank god we have a King in Morocco who seems to understand this and is doing what he can to guided us toward a more open and modern democracy. So let us stop attacking people who don't have the same interpretation of the coran as us, or the same beliefs. Pushing them back to their homes to let us live in the Myth of a 95%-of-the-population-is-moslem, is not a serious solution. Freedom of religion, respect and tolerance go TWO ways and they are practiced peacefully in several muslim countries besides Tunisia. All we have to do is open up our mind and educate ourselves. True faith doesn't come with a stick, prison or threats and those who use these types of terror only demonstrate a level of intolerance that will only take us back to religious totalitarianism. True faith comes with LOVE, COMPASSION, and PEACE. We urgently need to stop the physical and verbal abuse and attacks (by the police or by religious extremists) if we want other people to respect us in return. Let us believe what we want and let others do the same and finally LET ALLAH BE THE ULTIMATE JUDGE OF ALL OF US. Mabrouk Al 3id wa essalamou 3ala al jami3! |
Michelle Dandane
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... These protestors never broke the law, I must correct you on that point. They were arrested for intent to break the law. They were also not planning on putting anything in anyone's face, as one of the posters commented. They were going to go into a secluded area in the woods. The protesters were being very respectful. The issue is the law, and the fact that Morocco is not granting freedom of religion. They didn't set out to make a huge scene. They tried to challenge the law, not the people fasting that day. But they were arrested before they even got the chance. |
Hungryman
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... When living in a country where over 90% of the population is fasting for a month, the least a non fasting person (Moroccan or foreigner) could do is eat in a private area and not stuff him/herself in front of passerbys on an empty stomach. Not everything has to be polarized a la Bush: you're whether with us or against us. We are talking here about basic human decency and respect for the large majority to be put on the same scale as the right to walk around wearing a bikini in a souk or partying publicly when the rest of town is mourning some sad event. Less demagoguery and more common sense would go a long way keeping a minimum level of harmony going around. Ahhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm |
mounire
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nothing to do with democracy this whole eating thing has nothing to do with democracy. it is our religion !! But if you want to put it in democratic terms, we the majority do not care to see this small vocal minority disrespecting our religion and eating in public during the day during our holiest of months: the month of Ramadan. At least as a sign of respect if not because it is a sin according to our religion! heck you want to eat during the month, have a feast, just don't try and put it in our face. LASTLY, this author writes "religion is a personal matter and not an issue of the state." Sorry to disagree, our country's motto is "Allah Al Watan Al Malik" Religion is as you see is part of what our country stands for. Morocco is not your 51st state and even in Iraq the same rules with Ramadan apply. |
mounire
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our country, our rules ! this is our religion and if you don't want to follow it that is up to you, but as this is our country, you follow our laws in public no matter how hypocritical they may seem to YOU or move. no one is forcing you to stay in our country and as far as i am concerned this is not open to discussion. |
Cheers!
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God help these guys This group and I am sure other people like them have a long way to go before they see this despotic rule change and give them the freedom of religion that any TRUE democracy grants automatically to its citizens. I consider myself a Moroccan moslem and like many others I drink and I don't do Ramadan but, because of some stupid, hypocritical and obsolete rules, I am forced keep it to myself. It's time to change this article and let people behave according to their TRUE convictions and not play make believe and live in terror. I am who I am! It doesn't change the fact that I loooove my culture, my traditions and MY interpretation of Islam. I don't impose my interpretation on anybody and I would not like anybody to impose theirs on me. It is time Moroccans learn MUTUAL respect. A lot of fellow citizens complain about the lack of tolerance towards them when they are abroad and saddly those same people are the ones who have a total lack of tolerance towards anybody who dares to takes a diferent path. Enough with Middle Ages backwardism! Vive la tolerance et l'ouverture d'esprit et Eid Moubarak :) |
Abdelali shrif
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... Patriot, Let's not fool ourselves. Morocco is not Spain, France , or the US. As a matter of fact we will never be at least in our lifetime. I suggest to get used to it and don't get your hopes too high. |
Ash-lah
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Elitist agenda Can they look at us with a straight face and tell us that they are serious when out of all of the unfair laws affecting the day to day wellbeing of Moroccans they choose to martyred themselves for a public break of the fast. How about setting a protest to ask that not all the executive powers be concentrated in the hand of the person of the king and ask for constitutional reforms? No! they did not ask for that! because they know they will not last long enough to even have their voices heard in the media and they would be berried alive in a Tazmamart like prisons. I personally am against this article 222. and I can even push it little further and say I am for changing all kind of laws that infringe on individual liberties including the freedom of Moroccan Muslim individuals to convert into other religions. Bout going out in public and provoking the sentiments of the majority of Moroccans s is by all means a fake cause; those behind it are seeking nothing more than a15 minute fame or to please their Anti- Islam European masters. They think that by provoking Moroccan Muslim Feelings and reactions they would find a moral excuse for their own anti-Islam laws and sentiments in Europe. Again, we have to ask ourselves these important questions: how innocent is this initiative? did these individuals tackle other more profound issues affecting the broader Moroccan society before making a stand for an Elitist agenda? |
Moroccan Patriot
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Morocco used to have a better infrastructure than Spain When you say that Morocco will get to the level of development that Spain has attained, it is really funny. In the 1950's Morocco and Spain were on an even footing. The difference lay in the fact that Spain was ambitious about what it thought it could do, and Morocco, well, Morocco was pedaling backwards passing Hypocritical Laws designed to maintain the ruling classes and the general status quo. When you give your country a pass on Hypocrisy, what you are truly saying is that people in other countries are better than you are. You are saying that Moroccans do not have the right to the same protection under the law that exists in Spain, the US or even Italy!!! How terrifically sad. Morocco is in a situation where foreigners enjoy more rights in Morocco than do Moroccans!!! We have apartheid Laws except instead of Moroccans getting more rights, it is the foreigners who get more rights. We subjegate Moroccans to second class citizenship in their own country!!! In Israel, the Apartheid System gives more rights to the Jews, and in a, "Muslim" country like Morocco, again, Jews, Christians and even Atheists have more rights!!!! The Law should apply equally to everyone. End of discussion, if you do not at least get this part right on the books, then your country is doomed to be a bottom feeder nation, exiling its brightest and bravest as political refugees to Europe and North America, and maintaining an Oligarchy where the work and sweat of the many benefit the few. Incidentally, I am a very strong believer in Islam and its virtues. They have alot in common with children of the book, Do not throw stones from Glass houses and Judge not lest ye be judged. Either you have Shariah Law or you have secular Law, This middle ground is a bad joke that makes sustained economic progress in Morocco impossible. Who in their right mind would invest their hard earned money in a country that had redicilous laws on the books? |
nabilino
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... I'm surprised at the fact that Morocco Board decided to even publish your article. It's full of false information and attacks to the Moroccan population, yet you say you are not judging... your article is full of misstatements that I'm not gonna waste my time trying to point out; hopefully the readers are smart and would figure them out. if you're trying somehow to change something you don't belong to, you'll find out soon that you're wasting your time. |
Hmida Lpatanat
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... If they were in Saudi Arabia, they would chop their *U##(**# head off. Kudos to Morocco for keeping it cool and sending their ass to jail instead for breaking the law. Morocco is changing thanks to Mohammed VI. As for Those who think that Morocco lag behind in democracy, I say as they say in Morocco " The door is wider than your shoulder" and no one forces to go or to stay in Morocco. When Mexican cross to the US they adhere to the law of the US. If they don't like it, they get imprisoned and then deported. Law is the law. some like it , some don't. I said : TOUCHE' |
Jillian C. York
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Responses to your comments Thank you all for your comments. Tilimsani abdelatif, Well, yes, in that sense, I was "one of the gang." These were some of my best friends for years, and I wasn't just a tourist. I don't think that my friends would treat a "foreigner" with whom they spent every day with any differently. Besides, they weren't trying to convert me; what I meant is that they'd act as if they were not the same people who, just a month before, had been drinking and partying. El Cohen, The issue is not democracy; Morocco is moving more toward Islamism. Although there was certainly more repression prior to King Mohammed VI, my understanding from older friends and parents of friends is that, in respect to religion, they felt freer before. I know plenty of women who, in photographs from the 1980s, had big hair and stylish clothes. These same women now wear hijab, and their young daughters do too. That's not the point; the point is that Morocco treats a Muslim differently from a Jew or a foreigner. With the population of non-Muslims increasing, this will only become more contentious as time goes on. As for me, I do personally think it's disrespectful too eat in public in a Muslim country during Ramadan. I've never done it. But I still support the freedom to. |
el moro
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nice thank you for bringing up this subject, as a moroccan having spent a few days in morocco during this ramadan and living abroad since decades, i must stay im quite astonished by the hypocrisy during this month, and this starts of course with my family and friends, the acts of MALI are of course difficult to understand for a society who is ages from freedoom of acts, but it shows that they are some people who disagree, which is necessary in every nation |
Tilimsani abdelatif
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... " In August, I’d be clubbing in Marrakesh with Moroccan friends, drinking and dancing; as soon as Ramadan started, I was the black sheep." So now we are supposed to believe you just because you said it? Black sheep? Com'on now lalla York!! As far as I and every Moroccan know, Moroccans in general are very good to foreigners but not amongst themselves. Unless you see yourself Moroccan or one of the gang! |
El Cohen
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... Mrs York, You said that you believe that religion is a personal matter, but don't you think that what these guys tried to do is to take something personal (eating during fasting hours) and make it public ( no longer personal)? You also mentioned that these people tried to end the hypocrisy, don't you think that they could have chosen a month other than Ramadan to highlight the hypocrisy? More likely they would have more sympathizers if it wasn't during Ramadan. Don't you think that Morocco is not ready to tackle such a thing? Morocco is taking baby steps toward democracy, why chose to run and run fast to get the end? It will simply not work because it has only been 10 years that Morocco embarked on changing and shaking things up. 10 years is not that long, when you try to change thing and never look back. I can care less if People want to eat or fast, the point here is respecting the majority's belief. We are not Spain , France, or the US, we are Morocco a country that is striving to get better, it will take time but we will get there, not at the US or Spain pace, but at Morocco's pace. |
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